AOA 005: Learn the Importance of Balance to Help Your Allowance Program Grow with Your Child into Her Teen Years

Click here for the full transcript.

 

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Full Transcript

This transcript is from The Art of Allowance Podcast, Episode 5, featuring host John Lanza and guest Atsuko.

00:00:00,140 [John Lanza]
Hey, what’s up everyone? This is John Lanza, and you’ve found The Art of Allowance Podcast. So let’s get started. [upbeat music] Hello and welcome to The Art of Allowance Podcast. I’m your host, John Lanza. I created this show so that I could have parent-to-parent conversations and really tease out ideas of how we can all do a better job of raising money-smart, money-empowered kids. I hope you find a few little nuggets in each episode that you can use on your own journey with your own family. In this episode, I speak with Atsuko, an insightful mom with lots of interesting ideas. She emailed me recently to say that her now 16-year-old daughter had started learning money smarts with the Money Mammals back when our program first came out. So, of course, I had to have her on the podcast to talk about this, and I think you’ll enjoy our interesting and very wide-ranging conversation, including her use of the word balance as a guiding force. Yes, I threw that in for you Jedi warriors out there. She’s used that concept of balance to raise her money-smart child who is clearly on the path to money empowerment, and I think it’s really applicable to the framework that’s part of many of the conversations you’ve already heard on this podcast. For example, when the Share jar is out of balance in a good way, lots of funds, it might be time to make a donation, and I think you’ll find this concept useful as well. So let me know how and if you incorporate it into your program as you raise your money-smart kids, and now I give you Atsuko. [upbeat music] I have on the line Atsuko. Welcome, Atsuko.

00:01:58,760 [Atsuko]
Thank you for having me.

00:01:59,920 [John Lanza]
I know you’ve been working on raising your kid or your child to be, uh, money-smart for some time now, and I think you said you introduced them to money smarts a number of years ago when, uh, when your, when your daughter I think was around five years old and I, I kind of …

00:02:15,240 [Atsuko]
Yes

00:02:15,250 [John Lanza]
… wanted you to take us through how you started her off with that and, uh, got her moving on her money-smart learning process.

00:02:24,140 [Atsuko]
Right. Well, uh, she was, I believe she was around five years old. And I saw the ad for Money Mammals, and I said, uh, it was a, uh … I wasn’t even think of it, thinking of it as a learning tool. Uh, I thought it was a, a fun, uh, thing to have around and, uh, so I signed up. And there came the kit. And she did earn a little bit of money, um, you know, a quarter every day or so every time she did something of a good deed. Instead of a sticker I would give her a dime or a quarter. And, um, and I taught her the three disciplines which were to save, share, and, um, to spend. Um, and she didn’t know the concept of that. We just put, uh, quarters in there, and she carried them around. And they were quite big for her age and you could …

00:03:13,630 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:03:13,630 [Atsuko]
… see through the, the plastic, and the biggest joy was for her to jingle-jangle the jars. Um, and little by little, um, you know, she would get dollar bills for, for holiday, um, um, Christmas giving and, uh, New Year’s, and then, um, then I started her to have to spend her own money to give present to her cousins for the holiday. And so now she’s learning how to budget, uh, and also to, for her to buy something for herself that was a little bit more out of not need, but something that she really, really wanted. But I really urged her to keep a balance because if you just keep on saving, saving, it’s no fun. That’s money that’s not being used. And so I said, “Keep it even. If it’s a dollar, it’s thirty-three cents here, thirty-three cents here, thirty-three cents there,” unless she’s trying to, to save up for something. So that discipline just went through, you know, in our, in our lives. It just kept on even if we weren’t using the jars, that concept just, uh, went, um, uh, bigger and bigger and bigger. She’s now sixteen years old. She no longer, uh, uses the jars. She has a nice designer wallet that she has built. She doesn’t carry …

00:04:37,890 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:04:37,940 [Atsuko]
… coins anymore [laughs] and doesn’t jingle-jangle in her pocket. In fact, she has, uh, debit cards now. And, um, but she keeps that in balance. Her spending got a little bit bigger, um, but, um, that’s because, um, she was going to school and she’s [laughs] funny enough she buys, um, she spends it mostly on food more than anything else. Um …

00:05:03,680 [John Lanza]
Sure

00:05:04,120 [Atsuko]
… and her, her savings got bigger because she wanted bigger, faster, fancier things. I think right now she’s saving up for acoustic guitar. Um, so they did get bigger, but that discipline, that balance, and she’s always having to ask for more money to supplement something that she wants to get. But that balance is still there, and that’s how, what I like about it. She’s not afraid to spend. She’s not afraid to save because it’s for something that she likes to do versus what, you know, mommy tells her to do. Um …

00:05:40,820 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:05:41,120 [Atsuko]
… and, um, she just feels the freedom to choose because she could put more money here, more money there, um, any way she’d like. Uh, the only restriction I have is probably always to have money for a rainy day for unexpected things. And that’s about it. She, she loves doing it, and it’s in, in her brain, ingrained, and she’ll probably be talking about it to all of her friends.

00:06:11,960 [John Lanza]
Yeah. That’s great. Let me ask you, uh, there’s a lot of questions that I have about this, which is terrific, ’cause I … What I like to do is kind of break these things down because I think …

00:06:21,120 [Atsuko]
Sure

00:06:21,130 [John Lanza]
… that could be useful to our, uh, to our listeners. So, um, when you started at five, did you … I, I wanted to m- did you have a certain amount of dol- like for example, when we started at five, we were giving $5, right?

00:06:35,430 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:06:35,480 [John Lanza]
So we said $1 into save, $1 into share, and three into spend. You could break it down …

00:06:42,000 [Atsuko]
Right

00:06:42,010 [John Lanza]
… however you want. We just …

00:06:43,280 [Atsuko]
Right

00:06:43,330 [John Lanza]
… used that ’cause it was, uh, really easy with the dollars. How did you do that …

00:06:47,000 [Atsuko]
Yeah

00:06:47,010 [John Lanza]
… when she was five?

00:06:50,460 [Atsuko]
I think we did it together. Uh, it … there’s a little math involved here too, as, as well. And so if there was a dollar, um, we’d break that up, or if we had $10, we would break it up into, into $3 each.

00:07:06,240 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:07:06,510 [Atsuko]
The more, the better. Um, the coins are, you know, they, they’re fun. They make noise.

00:07:12,600 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:07:12,820 [Atsuko]
But, uh …

00:07:13,280 [John Lanza]
Yeah [laughs]

00:07:13,290 [Atsuko]
… the bills fill up the jar a little bit more. Uh, so …

00:07:19,280 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:07:19,580 [Atsuko]
… she … Yeah, she … We did a lot of math, and …

00:07:23,020 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:07:23,320 [Atsuko]
… just switching from here to here, just, um, um … We always had to have some money in all, all three jars, and …

00:07:34,220 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:07:34,230 [Atsuko]
… but she had the freedom to move …

00:07:36,960 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:07:37,580 [Atsuko]
… but with a reason.

00:07:38,980 [John Lanza]
Oh, uh, uh, let me ask you about that. So when you say the freedom to move, tell me what you mean by that.

00:07:45,100 [Atsuko]
Well, if she was going to, uh, save up for something and she didn’t have enough money, she would ask me, and I might say, “Okay. I’ll chip in a dollar, but why don’t you move a dollar from the other jar so that you can supplement and you can reach your goal a little bit faster?”

00:08:02,410 [John Lanza]
Right

00:08:02,410 [Atsuko]
And so there was math. There was timing. You know, if she was going …

00:08:07,320 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:08:07,330 [Atsuko]
… to have to spend this next week, then she would have to, to get that, uh, uh, supplemental [laughs] funds really quickly.

00:08:15,600 [John Lanza]
Yep.

00:08:16,040 [Atsuko]
Uh, and so the … ha- had to do a lot with timing and planning. And, um, so it just, it’s just, I don’t know. Um, it’s just something that …

00:08:28,340 [John Lanza]
So-

00:08:28,420 [Atsuko]
… we all, you know, as, as even adults, we have to think about …

00:08:33,220 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:08:33,230 [Atsuko]
… when we do some, uh, spending.

00:08:35,880 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah. It sounds … So it sounds like what you’re really trying to focus is, focus on is one of those, that core money-smart skills, skill of learning how to make smart money choices. So whenever money came in, ’cause you had mentioned, for example, like she would get $10 from …

00:08:51,460 [Atsuko]
Right

00:08:52,320 [John Lanza]
… a, a relative for a birthday, and you al- did you, did you always have her break that down into a share, save, spend? Is that what you did each time?

00:09:01,620 [Atsuko]
Yes, we did, um …

00:09:03,440 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:09:03,480 [Atsuko]
… because, um,

00:09:05,920 [Atsuko]
because it’s all about balance. The first …

00:09:08,520 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:09:08,720 [Atsuko]
… uh, uh, I think the, the biggest thing is balance. It doesn’t all have to be even, but balanced in terms of what she wants to do, and so that she doesn’t exhaust one jar versus the other, and they always have to be balancing somehow. Um, and then once it’s balanced, then she doesn’t have to think about, “Gee, how much should I spend? How much don’t I spend?” Whatever’s in that jar, she has the freedom to, to, uh, to spend. So she doesn’t have to …

00:09:36,840 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:09:36,930 [Atsuko]
… think about it.

00:09:40,100 [John Lanza]
Yeah. I like, I really like this idea of balance, uh, because that, that, that way you’re, you’re always allowing her to make choices, but you’re kind of urging her to make sure that she’s making choices that go across all three of those areas, and it sounds …

00:09:59,190 [Atsuko]
Right

00:09:59,190 [John Lanza]
… like that’s something you wanted to get through to her so that she could carry that into her teenage years, then to her …

00:10:05,200 [Atsuko]
Right

00:10:05,210 [John Lanza]
… adult years.

00:10:06,640 [Atsuko]
Right

00:10:06,660 [John Lanza]
And I, I think that, th- that, that kind of macro idea is a really nice one that you keep reiterating ’cause it’s so simple to understand for her.

00:10:16,080 [Atsuko]
Right. It’s, um, you know, decision-making is hard, and it gets harder as, um, uh, kids grow up.

00:10:21,730 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:10:21,740 [Atsuko]
But, and not to compare with other kids, but I see her friends who don’t, uh, think about it. Let’s say, uh, the parents give … They don’t get allowance, but they get, you know, money from their parents whenever they go shopping. Well, some kids are free to spend everything that they want, they’re given, but then they go home and, uh, look at the, uh, the things that they, uh, the kids hadn’t purchased and say, “Oh, I wouldn’t have bought that. You could get that cheaper at a Target or a discount store.” Well, my daughter would have thought about that before and say, “Oh, I went to Target. I wanted it, but I didn’t buy it because I know it’s, it’s, it’s cheaper on the internet.” She would have already thought about it, and so she gets smarter and makes those decisions before she goes out to shop. Um …

00:11:18,400 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:11:18,500 [Atsuko]
… some kids are, are not able to shop because they’re afraid. Um, and, um, um, and she’s, she’s been freed up of all those decisions before even she, uh, she makes those purchases. Um, and then also the save part is, is really, uh, fun because she keeps on changing her mind on what she wants to save up for. The bigger the, the, uh, thing which, uh, whatever she wants to buy, it gets harder to reach, but she already knows that it’s going to take her two years to get that acoustic guitar that she wants.

00:11:55,860 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:11:56,180 [Atsuko]
Um, but in the interim, what if she, uh, finds something else in between that she wants to, to, to buy? So she’s having to, you know, make those decisions, which are life decisions. And so I like her to struggle through that as well.

00:12:11,936 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah, your focus on these, making these choices is great because the thing is that if you don’t get it across to your kids that they’re making a choice every time they get money, then they’re just gonna be making those choices without thinking about them. But by … I like this, the idea of coming back to this idea of balance, that way you’re kind of reinforcing choices, and you’re kind of talk- you’re giving her a kind of simple way to think about it. You know, always be thinking about balance. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re gonna have, you know, 100, 100, 100 in each of the jars …

00:12:45,876 [Atsuko]
Mm

00:12:46,096 [John Lanza]
… but you can have a nice flowing balance, and as she gets older she’ll start to understand, “Oh, well, I, my balance is that I usually have 10% of my money in my share and 20% in my save,” or whatever that might be. And you guys …

00:12:57,956 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:12:58,196 [John Lanza]
… do you discuss it like that, or is it just something that you just kind of use that balance and have her find her own way? ‘Cause I, I like this concept. I’m trying to get a sense, uh, and maybe I’m looking …

00:13:08,636 [Atsuko]
Right

00:13:08,746 [John Lanza]
… at it in too, um, a, too methodical a way, but I …

00:13:13,246 [Atsuko]
Oh, no. No.

00:13:13,296 [John Lanza]
… I just, uh, I, I w- I want it, whatever, whatever kind of you can …

00:13:17,115 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:13:17,416 [John Lanza]
… however you can shine more light on how …

00:13:19,946 [Atsuko]
Right

00:13:19,946 [John Lanza]
… that works, I think that could be really useful to people.

00:13:23,236 [Atsuko]
Right. Well, um, the, the jars worked out really well for the elementary years, and towards the, uh, you know, when she got to fifth grade or so she was no longer using them. Um, and then we got a bank account, and she has money in the bank. Um, I had her go and apply for it, go through the whole process herself because once again, it’s a, a learning experience.

00:13:48,816 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:13:48,846 [Atsuko]
And she has a debit card, which I’m afraid, uh, I was afraid that she’ll get a little, mm, a little out of, um, out of line, but she didn’t. Um …

00:14:01,836 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:14:02,116 [Atsuko]
… and, uh, uh, so she gets her bank statement, and so she’s growing up to, to do that with, of course, not a lot of money, but the discipline is there.

00:14:15,796 [John Lanza]
Right

00:14:15,956 [Atsuko]
Um,

00:14:18,076 [Atsuko]
it’s a little bit different than having just a Starbucks card because a Starbucks card has, let’s say, $20, and when you’ve got, exhausted it, you just, just add more. It’s just a add, subtract, add, subtract, whereas with the concept of saving and sharing. Sharing also is very important because sharing, um, is costing a lot [laughs] nowadays.

00:14:42,376 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:14:42,836 [Atsuko]
Um, and that, that, that discipline is, is so key to life. It’s not just the addition and subtraction, it’s the sharing and the saving. Um, and, um, that you can’t do with a Starbucks card. But if you were to say …

00:14:59,376 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:15:00,436 [Atsuko]
… um, “Put money in the bank, uh, put money in your pocket so you can save, and then put some, um, at home so you can share with a friend or something like that,” that, that’s exactly what I would look for.

00:15:12,076 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that you mentioned, um, earlier was that just saving is no fun. This goes into, you had made a comment in, in our email, uh, exchange …

00:15:23,116 [Atsuko]
Right

00:15:23,176 [John Lanza]
… before we, uh, before we had this, uh, conversation, that you were saying …

00:15:27,876 [Atsuko]
Right

00:15:27,886 [John Lanza]
… you know, saving for a rainy day because the saving for a rainy day is so meaningless to a five- or six-year-old, and …

00:15:34,536 [Atsuko]
Yes

00:15:35,056 [John Lanza]
… I think y- I, I love, I love that idea of l- let’s just talk to them about let’s … Saving money, the way to make it fun is exactly …

00:15:43,136 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:15:43,146 [John Lanza]
… that for, you’re saving for things you might actually want in the relative near term. It’s not something you want tomorrow, but for a younger kid, it’s something they may want in four or eight weeks. You know, so that delayed gratification …

00:15:54,646 [Atsuko]
Right

00:15:54,646 [John Lanza]
… is a part of it, but they’re getting the fun of spending that money, and they’re still learning that they have to save for a period of time. But it’s not this kind of nebulous idea of a rainy day, which, again, is not gonna mean anything to a young kid.

00:16:09,656 [Atsuko]
Right. Saving for college, that’s what, something that the parents do. [laughs] Saving for, for something that they want …

00:16:17,516 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:16:17,896 [Atsuko]
… is the concept of saving. You, I don’t think I should be having her save for something that I want her to, to buy. It has to be something that she herself wants, and that’s, th- th- you know, a lot of my friends will say, “Well, I’m saving. Well, that’s a jar so that she could learn how to save for her college.” And I said, “Well, she doesn’t want to save for college. [laughs] I think she wants something else.” And so th- that has to be, uh, translated to something that they understand and they desire, not something that …

00:16:52,616 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:16:52,936 [Atsuko]
… you know, Mommy or Daddy wants them to learn conceptually.

00:16:56,696 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Yes. And I, that’s why I think that idea of the …

00:17:00,496 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:17:00,756 [John Lanza]
… the, of making it fun is a really good one. And, you know, there, there’s a, there is a time where kids might want to participate in the saving for college and whatever that might be.

00:17:09,826 [Atsuko]
Sure

00:17:09,976 [John Lanza]
But that’s, that’s gonna be in their teenage years, and if the intrepid kids that wanna do that, that’s all well and good. But like you said, that’s really, that’s generally a parental focus, um-

00:17:21,376 [Atsuko]
Right

00:17:21,776 [John Lanza]
… w- if you, if you have the wherewithal to do it. Um, or, you know, kids of course when they go, if they need to, they might need to work. Uh, you know, they might …

00:17:30,016 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:17:30,326 [John Lanza]
… have, there might be other, other ways that they’re gonna need to pay for college. But I, but I think especially in that younger, when they’re in those elementary days, to teach them that concept of saving, you’ve gotta make it something that they, they want to have.

00:17:43,666 [Atsuko]
Yes

00:17:43,716 [John Lanza]
And, uh, I think you, you really kind of, uh, connected, connected …

00:17:47,996 [Atsuko]
Right

00:17:48,156 [John Lanza]
… to that and, or helped your, helped your daughter connect to that idea, which is …

00:17:51,506 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:17:51,506 [John Lanza]
… really great.

00:17:53,076 [Atsuko]
Right

00:17:54,676 [John Lanza]
Um, the one, the other thing I wanted to point out, this is just something I think about because, uh, it was something that happened with, uh, my, with one of, one of my daughters. You talked about the idea of your daughter realizing, s- thinking about her spending before she goes to the store, which is terrific. And one thing that I thought about here is, you know, there’s a, there’s another th- there’s another element to this which is that not … It’s not always best to buy the less expensive option. You know, I know that wasn’t your point here, but I wanted to make that point …

00:18:24,956 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:18:24,966 [John Lanza]
… here on the podcast because for example, my daughter, and I talk about this in the book, she has a …

00:18:30,616 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:18:30,846 [John Lanza]
… like scooter now that she bought when she was, uh, five years old. Uh, she, she may have been six.

00:18:36,186 [Atsuko]
Right

00:18:36,216 [John Lanza]
I can’t remember now. But she, and she’s, you know, she’s now, you know, almost 14, she still has the scooter, and she spent a little more money on that scooter because it was a better scooter, and she wasn’t thinking …

00:18:50,125 [Atsuko]
Right

00:18:50,125 [John Lanza]
… “Oh, I’m gonna use this for 10 years,” but-

00:18:52,976 [John Lanza]
it ended up being a good choice. It’s not always the best choice to go for the less expensive option, and, uh …

00:18:59,406 [Atsuko]
Right

00:18:59,406 [John Lanza]
… especially in this case, it was a little more expensive than the scooter that had the character on it from, you know, one of the shows that she used to watch …

00:19:07,996 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:19:08,166 [John Lanza]
… which she would never be caught dead riding [laughs] …

00:19:11,216 [Atsuko]
[laughs]

00:19:11,256 [John Lanza]
… at the age [laughs] …

00:19:12,546 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:19:13,036 [John Lanza]
… as a teenager. So, uh, so, so those kind of choices, it’s, it’s, it’s more than just finding the less expensive option. It’s finding the, the option that makes the most sense, uh, considering …

00:19:24,436 [Atsuko]
Exactly

00:19:24,926 [John Lanza]
… what you’re trying to purchase. Yeah.

00:19:27,556 [Atsuko]
Ex- exactly. So they have a budget, and they have a need and a want, and it’s, it’s …

00:19:33,206 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:19:33,206 [Atsuko]
… I think it’s a matter of, um… And sometimes it, it comes up for discussion. I might chip in, um, feeling that she deserves something that, uh, that she really wants, or if it’s something that I say, “Eh, you know, if you need it, if you want it, why don’t you wait a little bit longer or wait …

00:19:54,156 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:19:54,186 [Atsuko]
… until it’s on sale?” Uh, and that’s a life lesson in itself too. So I, I’m not consistent in a way that it’s no, no, no or yes, yes, yes. It’s, um …

00:20:07,226 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:20:07,226 [Atsuko]
… always balanced with, “Hey, what would I do? What is it that, you know, she can tolerate?” If it’s gonna make her day and make her happy in a miserable situation, sure, I might say that, “Yes, I’ll chip in,” but it’s not just …

00:20:20,776 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:20:20,926 [Atsuko]
… to make her happy. It’s, it’s …

00:20:22,966 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:20:22,966 [Atsuko]
… there’s gonna be a lesson in there somewhere.

00:20:25,796 [John Lanza]
Yes

00:20:25,906 [Atsuko]
And, you know …

00:20:26,606 [John Lanza]
Yes, that …

00:20:26,606 [Atsuko]
… I want her to make her happy so that she’ll grow up to be a kinder person to somebody else, uh, when she sees somebody that’s in, in, uh, in, she’s in a position where she can help somebody. I want her to be that kind of person that can help.

00:20:43,165 [John Lanza]
… that’s a really nice point, and again, this gets back to your balance, and that’s the, the idea that, sure, you, you, when you set up an allowance system, you do have to make sure that you’re not bailing your kids out when, for example, if you give them allowance at the beginning of the month, and it’s …

00:20:59,496 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:20:59,716 [John Lanza]
… g- it’s enough to get them through the month, and they blow it all in the first week …

00:21:03,096 [Atsuko]
Right

00:21:03,106 [John Lanza]
… you can’t step in and say, “Okay, here’s your money.” But in the case that they have generally showed smart and responsibility with money, and there’s a situation where, you know what? You might be able to contribute a little bit to help her reach either a goal or something she just wants right now, and you feel like this is not, this is a kind of one-time-only thing …

00:21:22,956 [Atsuko]
Right

00:21:23,156 [John Lanza]
… that is perfectly appropriate. Again, uh, again, using your filter of balance I think might, might help, uh, parents to, to be able to kind of figure out when those times are. That’s a …

00:21:32,796 [Atsuko]
Right

00:21:32,826 [John Lanza]
… that’s a nice point.

00:21:33,876 [Atsuko]
Right. Uh, so learning how to spend, uh, wisely is as good a lesson as learning how to save.

00:21:44,416 [John Lanza]
Yes

00:21:44,536 [Atsuko]
I don’t know how, what’s a good way to teach sharing, but … Oh, one of the examples, um, I have, uh, a funny example is, um, sharing is always like a nebulous kind of a jar because you don’t need it. You could always budget, but if you, if my daughter gets a present that’s worth $10, of course you’re going to reciprocate by giving that person back with something for $10, but you could always …

00:22:15,326 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:22:15,326 [Atsuko]
… kind of, um, make your own decision. So that jar gets smaller, and smaller, and smaller, uh, because she’d …

00:22:22,486 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:22:22,486 [Atsuko]
… want to take it away. Uh, but once again, I have to teach her, “Hey, how, how would you like it if you gave a $10 pen to your friend,” those real fancy ones with, you know, four different colors, “and yet she gave back you a pencil? How would you feel?” And so that …

00:22:40,116 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:22:40,356 [Atsuko]
… again, is a lesson. It’s balance.

00:22:42,676 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:43,656 [Atsuko]
And so, boy, I’ve really used your, your, your, your concept so many times, and it’s helped me …

00:22:50,116 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:22:50,566 [Atsuko]
… become, uh, you know, I can rationalize where she could understand more than anything else. So it was a learning experience …

00:22:57,416 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:22:57,426 [Atsuko]
… for me that made it easy for me.

00:23:00,336 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s good, and I … You know, the Share jar is that jar that does very easily get forgotten because the spend is obvious. Kids are gonna have no problem spending money.

00:23:11,516 [Atsuko]
Right

00:23:11,716 [John Lanza]
The save, that’s usually if you’re doing it right. They’re, they’re saving for things they want, but the share can be forgotten. I think we just have to … I think the best way is just have you, you know, being vigilant about, you know, from time to time saying, “Oh, you have s- you’ve accumulated a certain amount of money in your Save jar …

00:23:27,676 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:23:27,706 [John Lanza]
… in your Share jar. Let’s make a donation to wherever it might be,” whether it’s a school is collecting …

00:23:33,506 [Atsuko]
Right

00:23:33,506 [John Lanza]
… for something that’s …

00:23:34,626 [Atsuko]
Right

00:23:34,626 [John Lanza]
… that’s, uh, disaster relief somewhere, whatever it might be. Um, that’s just, as a, as parents, that’s something that we, like you, like you were just saying, uh, have to just be on top of to help them think about it. Otherwise, they could very easily forget about that money.

00:23:48,256 [Atsuko]
Right

00:23:50,356 [John Lanza]
So that’s good.

00:23:50,956 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:23:51,376 [John Lanza]
I wanna ask you, um, m- you know, failure is a really good teacher, and we’ve all kind of experienced failures or kids have experienced failures. Do you have like a, uh, kind of a failure related to the money smarts with your daughter that you found was really instructive for you at all? Anything you can think of?

00:24:13,420 [Atsuko]
I can’t think of-

00:24:16,380 [Atsuko]
one-

00:24:18,180 [Atsuko]
off the top of my head, but transitioning from the jars to-

00:24:23,580 [Atsuko]
a wallet was easy, but getting into this debit card is a little bit scary.

00:24:30,100 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:24:30,620 [Atsuko]
Um, and we’re not quite there yet, but, um, she’s going to go to college in a, a year and a half.

00:24:39,940 [John Lanza]
Sure

00:24:39,970 [Atsuko]
And so that’s one of the questions that I’m [laughs] asking all my friends, “Oh, what did you do about allowance while, you know, your daughter or your son was in college?” Many of the kids, uh, work, um, on campus …

00:24:53,180 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:24:53,190 [Atsuko]
… and it seems to be the, the general, um, um, answer that I receive.

00:24:58,340 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:24:58,760 [Atsuko]
Um, and that’s one way, and I think now she’s, she’s going to learn how to earn it more than the parents giving, um, money to her, so that’s another lesson in itself. But, um …

00:25:13,160 [Atsuko]
… not too many failures, but I- I’m trying to see what kind of pitfalls there are when we go to debit card and when she goes off to college when she has to earn.

00:25:22,760 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:25:22,940 [Atsuko]
Um, and I’m not going to be the kind of parent that’s going to be sending a list of money, uh, in Money Gram, uh, all the time.

00:25:31,720 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:25:32,170 [Atsuko]
So, um, I … And yet I don’t want her to struggle either.

00:25:36,860 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:36,940 [Atsuko]
So, uh, I don’t know that balance yet. We’ll see.

00:25:40,730 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:25:40,740 [Atsuko]
If she goes to some place …

00:25:41,880 [John Lanza]
Okay

00:25:42,220 [Atsuko]
… near school, near our home or, you know, somewhere real far or, you know, out of the country, w- we’ll have to see. We’ll have to figure that out.

00:25:51,640 [John Lanza]
Now, did you, um, when you started, when did you start the debit card? Was that really in the last year? Was she 15 or 16 …

00:25:58,100 [Atsuko]
Yes

00:25:58,200 [John Lanza]
… when you started?

00:25:58,740 [Atsuko]
Yes

00:25:59,400 [John Lanza]
Okay

00:25:59,520 [Atsuko]
It just, uh, probably last year. I think it was last, uh, New Years.

00:26:04,780 [John Lanza]
Got it. Yeah. We did the, our older one, we started with the debit card at 13 …

00:26:11,300 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:26:11,520 [John Lanza]
… and then the younger one was, you know, the younger ones get, she’s- she started at 11. And I think it’s always, if you can do it, uh, it’s, uh, cash, cash is a, is a better … It- it’s- it’s good for kids to use cash …

00:26:26,640 [Atsuko]
Yes

00:26:26,650 [John Lanza]
… because we all know, and studies have shown we- we’re much less likely to spend money when it’s actually physical cash. We have a tough time …

00:26:34,549 [Atsuko]
Oh

00:26:34,620 [John Lanza]
… parting with cash, you know?

00:26:35,800 [Atsuko]
I see.

00:26:37,000 [John Lanza]
Um, so it’s good. I, I don’t … But, uh, so I, I don’t necessarily advocate that you must have a debit card, but the reality is once … that, that they’ve gotta understand that, that digital money is still real money, and they’ve gotta start be able to, being able to make those choices …

00:26:56,660 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:26:56,889 [John Lanza]
… using digital money.

00:26:58,660 [Atsuko]
Right

00:26:58,889 [John Lanza]
And it’s, uh, so I think it’s, I think generally it is a good idea to move into the debit cards. Uh, plus it does, it gets … For us, we have a debit card that has the three, the share and the save and the s …

00:27:09,870 [Atsuko]
Oh

00:27:09,870 [John Lanza]
… and the spend smart as well.

00:27:11,329 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:27:12,070 [John Lanza]
So that just makes it easier to do the, um, the actual allowance. But again, I think if you can stick with the cash, there is a big plus to that …

00:27:22,109 [Atsuko]
Oh

00:27:22,109 [John Lanza]
… when you’re handing out the allowance and to …

00:27:24,080 [Atsuko]
Right

00:27:24,109 [John Lanza]
… when they’re making those choices, ’cause they’re physically seeing those choices. When you did- did do it digitally, it’s less, you have to really call attention to when the choices are being made. So …

00:27:33,700 [Atsuko]
That’s true.

00:27:34,020 [John Lanza]
… um, I just wanted to ask when you were doing that, ’cause I think that’s …

00:27:36,710 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:27:36,780 [John Lanza]
… a question that parents find out, and different parents do it at different times.

00:27:40,880 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:27:41,329 [John Lanza]
So, uh, it’s good to hear that, uh …

00:27:42,900 [Atsuko]
Well …

00:27:43,300 [John Lanza]
… when, when you did it.

00:27:44,300 [Atsuko]
… well, she still has a little cookie, not a jar, a can that …

00:27:49,970 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:27:49,970 [Atsuko]
… I put, uh, her monthly allowance, and she’s the one that takes the money to the bank physically.

00:27:56,620 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:27:56,990 [Atsuko]
So I don’t do it electronically yet.

00:28:00,080 [John Lanza]
Yep. Yep.

00:28:00,600 [Atsuko]
So that’s one step of her being responsible for her m- her- her money management. Um …

00:28:08,500 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:28:08,640 [Atsuko]
… and there’s a bank across the street from right where we live, so she does that on her own. Um, and that is a good exercise for her to- to- to do, and she wants to do everything electronically, you know, like a … I don’t know what generation [laughs] we’re in, but, um …

00:28:24,140 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:28:24,710 [Atsuko]
… um, but I still feel that, like you, this physical feeling of the money and going to deposit or with, uh, a withdrawal, she has no problems, but, um, depositing is, is a good thing for her to do.

00:28:39,760 [John Lanza]
Yep. Yeah.

00:28:40,640 [Atsuko]
Right

00:28:40,860 [John Lanza]
I think that’s, that’s good.

00:28:42,380 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:28:42,880 [John Lanza]
And, and, and then she’ll, you know, when she goes to college, particularly if she’s, if she’s got a job, then she’ll, uh, she’ll start to learn, and you get that, you get that really kind of good feeling when you’re …

00:28:53,080 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:28:53,280 [John Lanza]
… depositing the money you’ve made into your account.

00:28:56,080 [Atsuko]
Sure

00:28:56,330 [John Lanza]
And you’ve set her up nicely …

00:28:57,890 [Atsuko]
Right

00:28:57,890 [John Lanza]
… where she can now realize that she’s gotta be making decisions about where to put that, put that money in this …

00:29:03,010 [Atsuko]
Right

00:29:03,150 [John Lanza]
… you know, spend and save and share. And it’ll be interesting when she gets to college, uh, how, how she works in the share part of it. You know, that will be an interesting thing when she …

00:29:13,040 [Atsuko]
Right

00:29:13,460 [John Lanza]
… when, when she has now, uh, more of the control.

00:29:16,920 [Atsuko]
Right

00:29:17,170 [John Lanza]
I’ll see how that goes. Yeah.

00:29:18,540 [Atsuko]
You know what’s really funny? Uh, even as a, um, a high schooler when she got the bank account, uh, she learned that she earned interest in her savings account.

00:29:29,490 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:29:30,340 [Atsuko]
And for her, it was so big. I think she earned, like, couple pennies, um …

00:29:35,980 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:29:36,420 [Atsuko]
… or a quarter or something. But to her …

00:29:39,660 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:29:39,670 [Atsuko]
… it was free money. And so she was …

00:29:42,260 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:29:42,420 [Atsuko]
… overjoyed and asked me, you know, “How do they do this? Why do they do this?” And I said … And then I taught her how loans worked and how you get interest …

00:29:54,160 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:29:54,170 [Atsuko]
… if you don’t pay your loan or you, you know, you, you have to qualify and this and that. And so, um, that interest part was, um, interested her, but it went into, segued into learning on the loan part as well. So once again, [laughs] thank you, John, for, you know, taking us through this whole process of, uh …

00:30:15,670 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:30:15,670 [Atsuko]
… managing money. Um, and, um, um, this, um, the thing about going to college, uh, kind of scares me because I can’t see her. The two things that us parents are talking about these days is, um, how are our kids going to do their budgeting?

00:30:36,564 [Atsuko]
And the other thing is, how do we, because we c- for them all the time, how are they going to learn how to cook?

00:30:45,034 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:30:45,084 [Atsuko]
And those are the two things that we worry because, you know, if they’re in the dorm, they’re going to eat dorm food, dorm bad food. If they’re out on their own, they’ll eat bad junk food. So how do we go about in, um, teaching the kids how to make their own food, you know, quickly and, and, um, um, cheaply? And one of my friends, in fact, is a chef, and, uh, he said, “Well, kids are gonna eat ramen anyway, so let’s get 100 ramen recipes.” And we made a booklet that had 100 ramen recipes. Quick, cheap, and yet it’s junk food, but yet you get some nutrition.

00:31:26,604 [John Lanza]
Right, right

00:31:26,734 [Atsuko]
And things like that.

00:31:27,314 [John Lanza]
You get …

00:31:28,584 [Atsuko]
Right

00:31:28,784 [John Lanza]
… you get some calories that you need just to keep [laughs] yourself going.

00:31:32,484 [Atsuko]
Right. And …

00:31:32,924 [John Lanza]
That’s a great idea. You’re … Uh, you really came up with 100 ramen recipes?

00:31:36,764 [Atsuko]
… yep. Uh, it’s …

00:31:38,324 [John Lanza]
Wow

00:31:38,514 [Atsuko]
… you know, simple. Um, and, uh, you know, it’s just got … It has a lot to do with the condiments. So you have the, the …

00:31:45,754 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:31:45,754 [Atsuko]
… uh, the, uh, Latin flavor, the Asian flavors, the, uh …

00:31:50,554 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:31:50,554 [Atsuko]
… just the regular healthy, when you add vinegar, it’s supposed to be healthy. Uh, it’s promised to be healthy.

00:31:56,374 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:31:56,884 [Atsuko]
But, uh, and then ones with soup, ones without, and, and all kinds. It was, um, it was pretty good.

00:32:03,444 [John Lanza]
Yeah. That is very interesting.

00:32:06,874 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:32:06,884 [John Lanza]
And I, we have that same question with our kids, uh, we do, we do … I had gotten this idea from, uh, Ron Lieber and his book, The Opposite of Spoiled, which is, and we implemented it almost immediately, which is that they make their own lunches.

00:32:20,404 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:32:20,864 [John Lanza]
And so that, I mean, that’s, that was primarily just a relief. We didn’t have to make them anymore, but it gave them … I think that’ll help them a little bit. The other thing is dorm food is so much better now than when …

00:32:33,184 [Atsuko]
Oh

00:32:33,484 [John Lanza]
… we went to school. [laughs]

00:32:34,284 [Atsuko]
Okay

00:32:34,864 [John Lanza]
I mean …

00:32:35,184 [Atsuko]
I’m relieved.

00:32:35,904 [John Lanza]
I, it, yeah, I … It really, they, the options that these kids have, I mean, I, I … It’s also much more expensive than when we went …

00:32:43,684 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:32:44,124 [John Lanza]
… um, to college, but the dorm food is pretty good. But I, I think the, uh, I think it’s a … your point is a good one, which is that it’s learning how to cook is a, is, uh, really, uh, it’s a terrific skill. I wish I had more of that skill.

00:32:59,294 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:32:59,364 [John Lanza]
And, um, but I think that’s, it’s, it’s smart to think about that. I wanted to, uh, to ask you also,

00:33:07,124 [John Lanza]
I wanted to see if we could maybe move into our, uh, fast and fun rounds.

00:33:10,174 [Atsuko]
Sure

00:33:10,204 [John Lanza]
I sent you a few of these questions …

00:33:11,784 [Atsuko]
Sure

00:33:11,914 [John Lanza]
… and, uh, uh, to give you a chance to maybe think about them. Um, and so let’s start with the first one, which is, when you think of the term, uh, “money-empowered,” uh, who do you think of, Atsuko?

00:33:23,544 [Atsuko]
Who do I think of?

00:33:26,384 [Atsuko]
“Money-empowered”

00:33:30,284 [Atsuko]
I think, uh, somebody …

00:33:33,184 [John Lanza]
Or you can even think of what do you think of? It could be a who or a what, if that’s easier.

00:33:37,184 [Atsuko]
… I think it was my dad because he knew what to, like you said, how to save and how to spend. M- mostly …

00:33:43,824 [John Lanza]
Got it.

00:33:44,004 [Atsuko]
… he knew how to spend. He knew how to spend wisely.

00:33:48,664 [John Lanza]
Yep. So he was frugal.

00:33:50,844 [Atsuko]
Right. Uh, he knew …

00:33:52,304 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:33:52,313 [Atsuko]
… the value. Uh, like you were saying, um, it’s not always the cheapest, but he buys something of value. For instance, property. He bought a, um, condominium …

00:34:04,684 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:34:04,784 [Atsuko]
… uh, and it was city-owned, so it wasn’t that expensive, but he would not buy it unless it was on the penthouse top floor …

00:34:13,404 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:34:13,414 [Atsuko]
… ’cause it has value. And he said, “Nope, I’m not interested in anything else. I’ll wait for another building.” And he waited, uh, another, for another building to be, uh, built by the city, and he bought the top floor. So he was not …

00:34:26,504 [John Lanza]
That’s great.

00:34:26,744 [Atsuko]
… afraid to spend.

00:34:28,864 [John Lanza]
Yep. Very smart.

00:34:31,384 [Atsuko]
Uh-huh

00:34:31,434 [John Lanza]
You’re lucky. [laughs]

00:34:32,754 [Atsuko]
[laughs]

00:34:33,244 [John Lanza]
Sounds like a good dad.

00:34:34,383 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:34:36,003 [John Lanza]
So if you had a, uh, billboard that you could put anywhere, um, ideally related to kind of money or family smarts or, uh, money, uh, family or child money smarts, uh, what would that be?

00:34:52,404 [John Lanza]
What might it say?

00:34:53,074 [Atsuko]
I’ve thought about that, and I think it, it might, uh, be a, an overall statement for a lot of your questions that you have c- uh, c- um, coming up. I … This is something that hit me, oh, when I was in my, oh, moody days, and I was reading, um, um …

00:35:11,944 [Atsuko]
… um, Maya Angelou.

00:35:15,104 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:35:15,294 [Atsuko]
And she said, “What is love?” You know, what is love? Taking them to, you know, doing things with them, doing things for the child, doing things for their future. And the one thing that, um, hit me, and I think my daughter was …

00:35:32,524 [Atsuko]
… probably still very young, because I was really towering over her and protecting her.

00:35:38,654 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:35:38,964 [Atsuko]
She said, “Give them freedom.” She said, “Let go.” And I said, “I can’t let go. She’ll fall.” [laughs] “If I let go, she might, you know, go somewhere on the street and get lost.” But she said, “Let go. Give them freedom to explore, and to have them make the failures that they’re going to make.” Uh, have a parameter. Of course, you don’t want her going out at night. But, um, have a parameter, but give them freedom, ’cause I was protecting my child so much. So I would say …

00:36:11,324 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:36:11,704 [Atsuko]
… um, freedom is, is love.

00:36:16,134 [John Lanza]
Wow

00:36:16,164 [Atsuko]
Freedom of choice.

00:36:16,704 [John Lanza]
That is a w- I’m sorry, continue.

00:36:19,812 [Atsuko]
But yeah, freedom of choosing things, freedom of, of, of self, freedom of thinking, um, just freedom.

00:36:30,312 [John Lanza]
That’s such a … It’s- that’s a, a really wonderful sentiment because that’s so much of what we’re trying to do when we’re kind of raising these money-smart kids, is give them the freedom to learn these lessons. You know, we kind of we’ll kind of walk alongside them on their journey.

00:36:49,962 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:36:50,132 [John Lanza]
But, you know, you- they- you really- they really need to get that freedom because at some point they’re gonna have more freedom, and you would hope at that point when they kind of go off, like that she’s… Your daughter will be going off to college, that then they’ve been… Now that they have more freedom, they’ve got some thought as to how to deal with the kind of balance that you want them to, uh, maintain …

00:37:11,772 [Atsuko]
Right

00:37:12,072 [John Lanza]
… as they kind of move through their kind of money-smart, money-smart lives, and hopefully on the road to money empowerment. So that, that is, that’s a wonderful billboard. Thank you, Atsuko.

00:37:20,592 [Atsuko]
Right. [laughs] Hopefully. [laughs]

00:37:23,682 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Well, one last question, which is, what’s the one book that you feel can help parents, uh, that you go back to or that you gift most often? It doesn’t necessarily have to be tied to money. It could be more tied to kind of overall philosophy, like the way you answered the last question.

00:37:43,812 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm. Um, I think, um …

00:37:48,552 [Atsuko]
… a lot of the self-help books are fine. I’m raising a girl in the twenty-first century, so there are a lot of, um, books being written about, uh, empowering girls and, you know, um, you know, what, uh, sh- should we prepare them for, how they think, how they’re different from boys, um, how, um, what should we do to, to, um, um… What’s a good word? Um, to give them a good grounding. So I, I haven’t read a book in such a long time, [laughs] but, um, anything that has to do with helping parents be-

00:38:33,172 [Atsuko]
understanding of their kids more in a psy- psychological way. Um, not How to Raise Kids-

00:38:43,432 [Atsuko]
101, do this, do that, do that, but more understanding their mind, mindset, um, how their brains, um, develop and how that can be, you know, their experiences can, um, affect those, those thoughts. Uh, you know, parents are so much under pressure from work and marriage and friends and, and, you know, in my generation, I’m sandwiched between my teenage- raising a, a teenage girl and elderly parents. So there’s a lot of …

00:39:18,372 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:39:18,502 [Atsuko]
… um, pressures. So, uh, many… I can’t think of one book, but, um, many of these books that help parents understand what their kids are going through …

00:39:31,412 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:39:31,612 [Atsuko]
… uh, is, um, uh, what I would look for.

00:39:36,512 [John Lanza]
Well, I’ll throw in one book that I read because I’m raising two girls too.

00:39:39,942 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:39:39,972 [John Lanza]
And there’s a book that’s by JoAnn Deak, which is called Girls Will Be Girls: Raising Confident and Courageous Daughters …

00:39:47,612 [Atsuko]
Right

00:39:47,932 [John Lanza]
… that, um, I thought was terrific to give me an idea, like you said, of kind of what they’re going to be going through so you can, uh, you can kind of sympathize, um, best with the …

00:40:00,012 [Atsuko]
Right

00:40:00,052 [John Lanza]
… whatever, [laughs] whatever, whatever, uh, predicaments they’re going through at whichever times, uh, during especially their tween and teen years.

00:40:09,032 [Atsuko]
Right. Um …

00:40:10,672 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:40:10,892 [Atsuko]
… I think there’s so much on the internet that these girls are being exposed to as far as entertainment, um-

00:40:19,792 [Atsuko]
you know, knowledge, science, and everything else. Um, and I don’t necessarily like the internet in the way that everything’s so temporary. I want some permanence …

00:40:30,512 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:40:30,602 [Atsuko]
… more for, um, um, to e- to exist in their life. Um, so …

00:40:37,791 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:40:38,372 [Atsuko]
… I like books more than [laughs] the internet. Um-

00:40:43,332 [Atsuko]
but, um, yeah, something that gives them more grounding and more, uh, more, more stability and …

00:40:51,742 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:40:51,772 [Atsuko]
… for us parents to learn more about their psyche.

00:40:57,212 [John Lanza]
Well, that is a great way to finish it, finish, Atsuko. I, I appreciate all the terrific information you’ve given us. I, I really, really like that concept of balance, and I appreciate you taking …

00:41:10,592 [Atsuko]
Sure

00:41:10,642 [John Lanza]
… time out of your day to talk to, talk to me and, uh, provide this kind of information to our audience. I think they’ll appreciate some of the thoughts that you’ve shared with us today.

00:41:20,392 [Atsuko]
Not at all. I really enjoyed talking to you. Uh, [laughs] you know, I never expected you to be calling me, so I’m really, really glad.

00:41:26,842 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:41:26,892 [Atsuko]
I, I really hope that, um, parents of the next generation, um, grow up, uh, to be, you know… The next generation of parents are smarter, more educated, more experienced than I will ever be. Um, but kids are kids. Kids don’t change. Um, and I hope that some of the, uh, wisdom that my parents or my grandparents passed on to me get passed on to, um, my child because it’s not going to get passed on through the internet. So, uh …

00:41:59,462 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:41:59,812 [Atsuko]
… people like you keep the, uh, stable and, um, basic and balanced. Well, thank you very much, John.

00:42:08,132 [John Lanza]
Well, you’re welcome. I think talking to parents, the wi- the wisdom comes through all of our experiences, and if we can kind of share those experiences, hopefully that collective wisdom will, uh, help us help our kids as best as possible. So …

00:42:24,132 [Atsuko]
Mm-hmm

00:42:24,162 [John Lanza]
… thanks again, Atsuko, and …

00:42:25,632 [Atsuko]
Oh, not at all.

00:42:25,882 [John Lanza]
… I appreciate your time.

00:42:26,122 [Atsuko]
I enjoyed the conversation. Thank you, John.

00:42:29,532 [John Lanza]
You’re welcome. [outro jingle] I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Art of Allowance Podcast. Please subscribe to our show to help me have more conversations with parents and get more ideas to help us all raise money-smart, money-empowered kids. You can find out more about our movement at theartofallowance.com. You can download a sample or get a copy of my new book, The Art of Allowance. You might also want to check out The Money Mammals, our program to help get your kids excited about money smarts when they’re young. And until next time, I wish you and your family well on your own journey to money empowerment. Thanks for listening.

00:43:14,812 [John Lanza]
[outro jingle]