AOA 073: The Family Share Jar – Giving Together with Andy Hill

Posted on by

“I got inspired to say, ‘What can I do to sort of ladder up our giving?’ So that I can be a good model to my children when I say, ‘Hey, it’s important to give a portion of your money.’”

— Andy Hill

Host John Lanza talks with guest Andy Hill about the journey from burdensome debt to financial freedom and, in particular, navigating such an experience with kids. Andy explains what his allowance system entails, how to communicate the power of compound interest and why he thinks modeling matters most when teaching money smarts. He also shares how he and his wife made changes in their own lives to be better financial models for their children, especially in the area of giving. Additionally, John and Andy discuss raising money-smart kids in spite of financial shame, having open money conversations, introducing the Flex Allowance, explaining good and bad debt, celebrating money wins and building up generosity.

Andy Hill is the award-winning family finance coach behind Marriage Kids and Money, a platform dedicated to helping families build wealth and happiness. Andy’s advice has been featured on or in CNBC, Forbes, MarketWatch, Kiplinger Personal Finance and NBC News. With millions of podcast downloads and video views, Andy’s message of family financial empowerment resonates globally.

Links (From the Show)

  • Connecting with Andy
    • The Marriage Kids and Money platform
    • Andy’s “Make My Kid a Millionaire” course
  • Money-Smart Mentions

Show Notes (Find what’s most interesting to you!)

  • Andy’s focus on helping families build wealth and happiness [3:02]
  • The evolution of the Hill allowance system [3:56]
  • Folding laundry: The allowance and chore debate rages on! [5:52]
  • Andy’s thoughts on “above and beyond” chores [8:36]
  • Moving from a cash allowance to a digital system [10:03]
  • Is there such a thing as “good debt”? [12:41]
  • Talking to kids about debt: Better break out the mortage piñata! [14:59]
  • Making invisible money decisions visible [17:42]
  • Helping kids understand the power of time [19:22]
  • The importance of modeling when teaching money smarts [22:40]
  • Leveling up family giving [25:33]
  • Whether or not they believe it, parents have so much to provide their kids in terms of money smarts. [30:12]
  • The relationship among money, time and happiness [34:02]
  • Andy’s parents are still his money role models. [36:32]
  • Andy’s earliest (sweet) money memories [38:36]
  • Maximizing your values through money [39:59]
  • Investing in one-on-one time with kids [40:18]
  • Using money as a tool [40:54]
  • Being values-focused [41:34]
  • Andy’s money-smart book recommendation [42:59]
  • Andy on the web [43:23]

Click here for the full transcript.

If you liked this episode …

Interested in a counterpoint to Andy’s tying chores to allowance? David Owen, the author of The First National Bank of Dad, shares why he believes allowance and chores shouldn’t be linked. Tune in to our Art of Allowance Podcast conversation beginning at 43:54 for his reasoning.

Want more information on money modeling? During her second podcast appearance, researcher Ashley Lebaron-Black outlines how family modeling as well as experiential learning and open conversation impact financial outcomes. Start streaming at 9:38, or listen to the corresponding video short.

Curious about the relationship among money, time and happiness that Andy mentions? Self-described “time nerd” Ashley Whillans talks about just that during her Art of Allowance Podcast debut. And for an even deeper dive, read her six-part series on money, time and happiness that appeared in Harvard Business Review.

Please Subscribe

If you like this podcast, then please leave a review and subscribe to the show. The Art of Allowance Podcast is available on iTunes, Spotify, Podchaser and now Amazon Music. Subscribing is free, and it will help us produce more enriching content for you to enjoy.

Full Transcript

This transcript is from The Art of Allowance Podcast, Episode 73, featuring host John Lanza and guest Andy Hill.

00:00:00,159 [John Lanza]
Hello, and welcome to Episode 73 of the Art of Allowance podcast. I’m your host, John Lanza.

00:00:09,559 [Andy Hill]
So I think sometimes parents think that since they’re not, you know, super wealthy or they’re not all together financially that they have nothing to provide. I really think that they do, and it takes that modeling and the conversations you have with your children to maybe course correct, just like we did, you know? “Hey, you should really give a lot more.”

00:00:29,779 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:00:29,799 [Andy Hill]
But then you- you’re like, “Oh, wait, am I actually giving or…” You should spend your money wisely. “Wait, am I- am I spending my money wisely?”

00:00:37,380 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:00:37,400 [Andy Hill]
These- these are great opportunities so when we open our mouths to communicate and share, uh, we can also look introspectively and say, “Well, how am I doing with that?” And it’s just taking the time to think about it. And I think if parents give themselves a little break and a little grace and say, “We all have something to provide, no matter your money situation,”

00:00:58,340 [Andy Hill]
I think that’s a great starting place for a lot of parents. [instrumental music]

00:01:09,959 [John Lanza]
In this episode, I talk with Andy Hill about the journey from debt to financial freedom, and in particular, navigating that journey with your kids. Andy explains what his allowance system entails, how to communicate the power of compound interest to kids, and why he thinks modeling matters most when teaching money smarts. Andy also shares how he and his wife made changes in their own lives to be better financial models for their kids, especially in the area of giving. And we also discuss raising money smart kids in spite of the financial shame we all have some amount of, having open money conversations, introducing the flex allowance, explaining good and bad debt, celebrating money wins and just being more generous with our money. Andy Hill is the award-winning family finance coach behind Marriage, Kids and Money, a platform dedicated to helping families build wealth and happiness. Andy’s advice has been featured on CNBC, Forbes, Market Watch, and NBC News. With millions of podcast downloads and video views, Andy’s message of family financial empowerment resonates globally. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Andy Hill. [instrumental music] Today, I am speaking with Andy Hill, Mr. Marriage, Kids and Money himself. Welcome, Andy.

00:02:50,419 [Andy Hill]
Thank you so much for having me, John. I appreciate it.

00:02:52,419 [John Lanza]
Well, I appreciate you dealing with our technical difficulties.

00:02:55,379 [Andy Hill]
[laughs]

00:02:55,439 [John Lanza]
We have our fingers crossed that we are going to make it this time. So, this is exciting. It’s very exciting to have you on the show, and I think the best way to kick things off is just have you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you’re up to these days.

00:03:09,599 [Andy Hill]
Sounds good. Uh, yeah, my name is Andy Hill. I am married to an awesome woman named Nicole, uh, 14 years now, and, um, my kids, I have a 12-year-old daughter and a 10-year-old son. And then I spend the other portion of my time working on MarriageKidsAndMoney.com, which is a website, podcast, YouTube channel focused on helping families build wealth and happiness, which I’m trying to do personally, so I figured, why don’t I make, uh, make content about it-

00:03:35,939 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:03:36,039 [Andy Hill]
… and all that good stuff. So, yeah, that- that’s what I’m up to.

00:03:38,259 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:03:39,979 [John Lanza]
Well, you’re making a great impact, and, uh, you are out there all over the place. You’re- you’re, uh, one of the harder, hardest maybe, working guys in personal finance-

00:03:49,959 [Andy Hill]
[laughs]

00:03:49,979 [John Lanza]
… and I appreciate all the content you put out. So thank you, Andy.

00:03:53,299 [Andy Hill]
Thank you. Thank you for that compliment. I appreciate it.

00:03:56,199 [John Lanza]
No, you’re welcome. So here on the Art of Allowance podcast, we, surprise, surprise, like to talk about allowance. So, uh, let’s talk about your allowance system. Tell me a little bit about, uh, the system that you’ve been able to implement with your kids.

00:04:13,239 [Andy Hill]
Yeah. Well, it’s evolved over the years, John, for me. You know, when we started with our children around, you know, four or five years old, we just found ways for them to contribute around the house outside of, you know, the typical things where they would, you know- you know, take care of the things that they need to do. So when they- when they were able to do those things, you know, for example when my daughter was five years old, we’d give her three sort of extra things to do around the house. She would help with the small vacuum, moving it around in her bedroom or in the kitchen to get up the little crumbs, walk around the- you know, the house with the little trash bag, and we’d empty the small trash bins together, and then we’d work together to empty the silverware. Things like that. Little- little small tasks so she learns that, hey, this is what we do as part of being, uh, in our- in our family. And for those tasks, we’d give her a dollar for each one of them. And in the beginning, it was easy just to do cash, and just hand that money over, and we would split it amongst three different glass jars. We’ve got our- we’ve got our give jar, we’ve got our spend jar, and we’ve got our save jar. And so those opened up conversations for my daughter and I, as well as then my son that followed years after that with- with the process as well. So we felt like them having the ability to see participation and contribution around the house was a good way for them to learn [laughs] just general life lessons, and also to put money in their hands so they can learn a lot about it, and also to make mistakes with it as well, ’cause I think that’s really how they’ve- they’ve learned over the years.

00:05:45,259 [John Lanza]
[laughs] All right. So you’ve got your three jars, and then you’re starting off with the kind of starter chores. Do you still- do you still require them to do chores for their allowance? How did that- did that work? Were th- were those just starter chores to get them used to this idea that, do some work, make some money? Can you tell us a little bit about how- how that evolved?

00:06:07,939 [Andy Hill]
As they got older, we wanted to, um, show them that, “Hey, there’s a lot of work [laughs] to be done around here, and the more capable you are in helping with that, that would be great, because Mom and Dad have a lot of things going on.” But then with that, you know, we can increase their reward over time. So in the beginning, just to make things straight for our- our brains, we just said, “Well, why don’t we just give them a dollar?”… for their age. You know, say, okay, so if she’s six, let’s give her $6 per week for all the things that she’s going to do to contribute around the house. That made things a little simpler in the beginning. So as they got older, they- their chores became a little bit more, um, you know, complex, but also, helpful as they got older and they got more able-bodied to- to really do some important things. Uh, and, so we just increased their- their dollars that went towards those over time. But yes, there are also things that they do around the house just because they’re part of the family, you know. They would help clear the table. They would help, uh… Eventually now, at age 12 and 10, they can do their own laundry. Things [laughs] like that that have been very helpful for us as a house, but then, also, these life skills that they have now as young kids that is really going to help them, um, get a leg up in the future.

00:07:20,914 [John Lanza]
I… That giving them the laundry, doing their own laundry chore was one of the, uh, the most helpful changes we made in our lives.

00:07:30,573 [Andy Hill]
It is. I completely agree, and it is, uh, one of those things where when I hear my son complain about the folding of the laundry, uh, I’m just like, “Yeah, man. It’s- it’s a pain in the butt to fold laundry.”

00:07:42,393 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:07:42,553 [Andy Hill]
You know? It’s like, there’s no sugarcoating it. I’m like, originally I’m like, “Let’s play some music.”

00:07:47,413 [John Lanza]
[laughs].

00:07:47,573 [Andy Hill]
You know, like, “We could do this together. It’ll be fun.” [laughs] But honestly, folding laundry’s boring.

00:07:52,133 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Yeah.

00:07:52,553 [Andy Hill]
But you know what?

00:07:53,073 [John Lanza]
Like-

00:07:54,073 [Andy Hill]
It’s part of life, you know? [laughs]

00:07:55,813 [John Lanza]
You have to do this every week.

00:07:57,853 [Andy Hill]
Yes.

00:07:58,133 [John Lanza]
Every week-

00:07:58,953 [Andy Hill]
For the rest of your life

00:07:59,814 [John Lanza]
… e- every year of your life. [laughs]

00:08:00,713 [Andy Hill]
Brush those teeth, buddy. Like, there’s not a lot of entertainment going on, but man, is it important to brush those teeth. [laughs]

00:08:06,713 [John Lanza]
[laughs] There are… I mean, I will say the one thing kids do, uh, at least our kids have- have done, is they d- Sometimes they’ll be folding, other times, there’s just a hamper full of clean clothes-

00:08:17,474 [Andy Hill]
Sure

00:08:17,633 [John Lanza]
… and they just kind of dive into that. [laughs]

00:08:19,593 [Andy Hill]
[laughs] Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

00:08:22,313 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:08:22,373 [Andy Hill]
Yeah. That ends up happening. The- the washing, the drying, that- those are pretty easy things. But then it’s like the, “Okay, now it’s in the hamper. How do I get it back on,” whether it’s on the hangers or in the drawers, that… Sometimes that takes a day or two to make it- make its way into the closet. Yeah. [laughs]

00:08:36,233 [John Lanza]
Got it. Now, is there, um… Was there kind of a… Is there any baseline allowance that you provide them that is not tied to chores, or is it all chore based?

00:08:44,353 [Andy Hill]
Uh, you know what? Right now, I have, uh, created a- an ability for them to earn money outside of the chores that are done at the house now. So, if they want to earn money-

00:08:56,133 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:08:56,153 [Andy Hill]
… outside of, you know, our typical daily to-dos at their age, they can work with me on my small business, or they can help out extra around the house. And that, you know, for example, extra would be something like when we had some snow here in Michigan and my son saw that, “Hey, we have a full deck of snow here in the back. Hey Dad, can I shovel that and just put it- push it off onto the- on the lawn?” And that’s a great opportunity for me to throw 12 bucks his way, 20 bucks his way. I forgot exactly what it was, but it was enough for him to be motivated to want to really help out in an extra way for him to earn some more money. And same thing goes with my small business, if they participate as podcast hosts, or my daughter helps me with my social media scheduling, or we go through my emails together and she helps me to clear them, those are opportunities for them to make a high hourly rate, like 20 bucks an hour. And those are the extra ways that they can make money now as- as, uh, 12-year-olds and 10-year-olds.

00:10:02,733 [John Lanza]
Okay. Very nice. Now, has your allowance… One of the things that we did is we evolved our allowance. And I, and I wrote about the book, the idea that we c- We call it the breakthrough allowance, and r- we’ve kind of- kind of rebranded as like the flex allowance, because, uh, we’ve realized it’s just every parent and every kid does it differently. But the- the main point is that kids go from that starter allowance when they’re school age, so say, you know, five to nine or 10, and they are just kind of saving for things that they- they want to have, right? And setting goals and saving for goals. But then they- we gave them certain responsibilities. So they had to pay for their own clothes, and they, uh, had to pay for their phones, and they had to pay for, uh, going out with friends, and pay for friends’ gifts. So I’m curious if you have given them additional spending, uh, responsibilities, uh, in the process, and, like, how has your allowance evolved?

00:11:04,533 [Andy Hill]
I think that’s a fantastic idea, and I remember you and I talked about that, I think, maybe five years ago when I had you on my show, and I said, “Oh, this is going to be-“

00:11:10,993 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:11:11,133 [Andy Hill]
“… something that I’m definitely gonna do when my kids are preteens or teens.”

00:11:14,793 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:11:14,813 [Andy Hill]
And now I’m at to that point where my daughter’s 12, she’s gonna be 13 next year. I’m like, “Okay, this- this makes a lot of sense.” No, we haven’t moved to a portion where they have that extra money in their account, but I really think it’s a smart idea, because that will give them the knowledge and responsibility of what it means to be responsible for those types of things. And if we said, “Hey, you know, here’s 30 bucks or 50 bucks,” or whatever it ends up being per month for clothes, then they can be, you know, a little bit maybe more picky and choosy about what type of clothes they want to have. Or maybe they want to save up a little bit for one month, and then they can buy a bigger thing next month, just like life. So I think it’s- I think it’s a fantastic idea.

00:11:55,373 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:11:55,773 [Andy Hill]
You know, what we have done is, you know, obviously moved away from the jar system and the cash and moved to a debit card system, which has made it a lot easier for us to filter that cash to them if we decide to go with this flex allowance idea.

00:12:10,673 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:12:10,693 [Andy Hill]
But when we do pay them for their chores or we do pay them for, uh, contributing in the small business, then it’s easy for us to just do that quick transfer- bank transfer as opposed to getting a bunch of dollars and money and things like that. So it’s- it’s become a lot easier for us to move to a digital format. And now they have their own debit cards, so when they go to the store, they can use their own debit card and have that autonomy as well.

00:12:36,491 [John Lanza]
Very nice.

00:12:38,491 [John Lanza]
Well, it sounds like your kids are in good shape, and that’s great. And one of the things I want to talk to you about is, you’re kind of, um… You- you famously paid off about $50,000 in debt, you and your wife, in about one year, um, much of which was kind of called so- so-called kind of good debt. So I- I’d love for you to explain what you call good debt. We’ll start there.

00:12:59,311 [Andy Hill]
Sure, yeah. I would say, uh, in the beginning, back then, uh, we had accumulated $50,000 of debt, and now this was student loans and car loans. So if we talk about good debt, you might say, “Well, you know, you go to college and you get the loan so that you can graduate and then be able to make more money with- with those, uh, with that debt that you, that you accumulated.” And the car loan, same sort of thing, you know, you got to get around, you got to get around to that job. So we took a look at the amount of good debt that we had and we said, “Okay, well, it’s still kind of like dragging us down a little bit with regard to where we want to go.” And at the time, when my wife and I got married, took a look at that debt and it was about $50,000 and we said, “Well, you know, what could we do to eliminate this debt before our daughter comes into the world?” Because my wife did have aspirations of eventually becoming a stay-at-home mom, so she could, you know, be there present with them and raise them and have a little bit more bonding opportunity with them. So for us, [laughs] wh- whether it was good debt or bad debt, it was just debt [laughs], because it was kind of-

00:14:02,911 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:14:02,931 [Andy Hill]
… holding us back from, you know, utilizing more of our time and money towards the goals that we had. So we said, “Why don’t we partner together?” You know, before, [laughs] before we were married, we were living on our, our salaries. So now, now that we’re married, we’ve got sort of double what we had, uh, before. Why don’t we try to live on half of our income, or spend one and save the other essentially, and then eliminate this debt? So we did that over a 12-month period of time and slowly paid down that $50,000 until we were debt-free outside of the student loans and the mor- Uh, the student loans and the car loan were gone, but we still had our mortgage at that point. So as we started to look down the road of what could we eventually do to allow my wife to go part-time to begin with and then eventually full-time, that’s where our plans towards investing aggressively as well as paying off the mortgage came in. And, uh, that definitely helped with that plan.

00:14:57,611 [John Lanza]
That’s great. Do you still think of… So now that you are debt-free, um, I guess, how do you… Have you had a chance to talk to your ki- I mean, they’re young, I know they’re 12 and 10, but have you talked to them about debt? Do they know about your journey with that? Uh, what, h- uh, just curious at their age what that conversation-

00:15:19,371 [Andy Hill]
Yeah

00:15:19,391 [John Lanza]
… is like

00:15:19,491 [Andy Hill]
… You know, at that time, when we paid off that $50,000, uh, they weren’t even around yet. So-

00:15:24,371 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:15:24,391 [Andy Hill]
But what they were around for was when we kept that aggressive saving nature up and decided to pay off our mortgage. Um, we paid that off-

00:15:31,751 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:15:31,851 [Andy Hill]
… when my daughter was five and my son was three. And, uh, I wanted them to be aware of what we were doing and make it a fun celebration. So when we paid off that last payment, we did a mortgage-free celebration. So we created a pinata out of our mortgage papers, uh-

00:15:50,871 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:15:51,191 [Andy Hill]
… all the documents and, uh, created this papier-mâché thing and we put some candy in it and we put some coins in it and some toys and we hung it up for our kids to hit with sticks and break it and then get the reward of paying off your mortgage. So it was sort of a celebration and they got to, to see the spoils of the reward of, of, of becoming mortgage-free. We also created a, a mortgage wall of all the papers and let them run through it. And so we, we, we, we memorialized this in some videos and some photos and, and I show it to them every once in a while just so they can remember this cool moment that we had, uh, at the beginning of our family, uh, uh, plan. And it helped us to allow my wife to move to that part-time and then full-time stay-at-home mom, um, situation around that time. I think it was about 27… 2016, 2017. So it was, uh, it was a very big moment and, and, yes, I am very open and honest with my kids about money, so much so that I’m making videos about it with them-

00:16:48,751 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:16:49,071 [Andy Hill]
… talking about celebrating, uh, paying off the mortgage. So, yes, we’re, we’re very open about our conversations about money and, um, I think with that, that probably shapes how they view, uh, their, their future plans and maybe debt in, in a situation like that. Our goal, I know that, uh, you know, paying off low interest debt can be controversial, I guess, you know, especially in this, in this environment, but for us, we were looking for a way to allow us not to need two full-time incomes and being, uh, debt-free and mortgage-free definitely helped with that during that period of time in our lives.

00:17:24,691 [John Lanza]
Yeah, that’s, uh… I- I’ve heard Morgan Housel describe that as a, as a bad money decision, but a very good, uh, decision for themselves-

00:17:34,131 [Andy Hill]
Yes

00:17:34,151 [John Lanza]
… because you just wanted to get that debt… that’s just, it ma- it helps you sleep at night and I think that’s a terrific frame. It doesn’t always have to be a great money decision. Um, and what I really like about the celebration is that you are making visible the invisible because this is so important with kids. For example, they will see that you might be driving a certain car that’s, you know, not as, uh, not as pricey as someone else’s car and it’s good for them, for them to realize that, you know, the reason you did that is that either you didn’t want to take out a loan, you got a used car, um, or you got a loan at 0% or you get a very small loan. Because those kind of decisions, what they see is, oh, you’re bu- you’re spending tens of thousands of dollars on a car and that seems like just a lot of money. So for them, what they need to see is that that’s relative to what you could be spending. You know, you might have someone who’s buying, I- I don’t mean to pick on a pickup truck, but a pickup truck for say $60,000 t-And they’re paying that, for that as a lease, or they’re, you know, just have a loan on that, and it’s much more of a burden. And so I like this idea of, you know, making that the visible… The invisible visible to them, so they see why… See your decision-making process and that, for example, you’re paying off your house, and the reasons you’re paying off their house, your house. And now, they have it as, like, a tool in their toolkit. They can think, “My parents are using money as a tool and a way to make them happy. Maybe there are ways that I can use money in a way that can make me happy.” So kudos to you for that idea.

00:19:11,441 [Andy Hill]
Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. It’s, uh… Any way that we can make this process more fun instead of just being all numbers focused, um, we are, we’re all about in our family [laughs].

00:19:21,421 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:19:22,801 [John Lanza]
So one question is, uh, you’re a creative guy, so have you come up with any… I think one of the most difficult things for kids, and again, your kids are younger, but have you come up with any creative ways to help your kids understand the power of compound interest, which I think is just, or just the power of time, uh, which is kind of their biggest ally moving forward? Have you come up with any creative ideas to get that idea across to them?

00:19:49,201 [Andy Hill]
Yeah. You know, just like we were talking about with the, the celebration, the mortgage free celebration, any way you can visualize it could be helpful ’cause otherwise, it is a pretty, honestly, pretty esoteric kinda conversation to have, especially with a child about the importance of thinking about something 50 or 60 years away-

00:20:07,781 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:20:08,201 [Andy Hill]
… and why you need to take advantage of it now, you know? Like, it- it’s, it’s a very difficult conversation for grown adults to have, let alone, you know, uh, a 10-year-old to, to be a part of. So the… Any slight o- opportunity that I’ve had, uh, to make an impression with my son or daughter is just looking at something like a compound interest calculator and then saying… You know, having a general conversation. I remember having this with my daughter, saying, “Hey, you know, we’ve got $5,000 in your investment account right now. Do you know what that will do over the next 50 years?” And we’d plug that in there, and it would show if we continue to contribute, this could be a million bucks, you know, in, in 50, 60 years from now. Isn’t that, isn’t that incredible? Um, but then she would ask, “Well, what about if we just, like, do it in, like, two or three years?” And then we, “L- let’s take a look and see what that happens,” and it turns into, like, whatever, $5,300, something like that. She’s like, “Okay, so the longer we leave it in there, the more it’ll grow, and it’ll compound over time, yes.” So if there is small conversations you can have where you can visually show that growth, I- I found that to be generally beneficial at, at this point in their lives. But really soaking in the investment ideas of why it’s important, how long it’s important. It’s very difficult right now, especially as there’s so many more immediate interests and immediate needs and wants.

00:21:34,421 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:21:34,801 [Andy Hill]
But for them, I just, like, try to reinforce that investing is just for really big things in the future. It’s for your retirement when you’re older and you don’t want to work as much anymore. It’s for your education when you go to college, and maybe it’s for bigger things like homeownership if you were to invest and save for that for a long period of time. Outside of that, you know, investing doesn’t work that well when you don’t have a lot of time on your side. So if I just… I try to reinforce those things in conversations when possible without being the annoying money dad that I am sometimes.

00:22:07,981 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:22:08,061 [Andy Hill]
And, uh, I hope that it works over time, John [laughs].

00:22:12,081 [John Lanza]
Well, the annoying money dad I think will, uh, pay off, and I think it’s, uh-

00:22:15,801 [Andy Hill]
[laughs]

00:22:16,281 [John Lanza]
… it’s… I… It’s probably… It seems like your focus is, is on opening the conversation, and that will build as they get older. I mean, that’s, like I said, your kids are younger, and it’s, it’s less, um… I mean, their, their time horizon, th- that’s so far off, so I’m always looking for creative ways. And it’s, I think, more than anything, you’re kind of underscoring the importance of having conversations, so that’s great. Uh, this is all… I mean, everything here we’re talking about is learning, and learning tends to happen in three ways, and I want to ask you about this. So the, the three ways are modeling, you know, what our kids see us do or frankly see people in society do, and, uh, and obviously they, they look to us. Um, lectures, you know, whether it’s teachers teaching kids or us teaching our kids, and then personal experiences. You and your wife are obviously very good role models for your kids, so how much value do you put on each of these three ways of learning? Which of them do you think is, uh, to the extent… Unless, you know, you may- there may be something you want to add to it, but what, which of those have the most value in your opinion?

00:23:23,241 [Andy Hill]
I would say, I mean, just based on, uh, our own lived experience and, um, the research that I’ve done, the importance of modeling is A, number one, for, for, for us. Um, we can’t talk about all of the important things that our kids need to do without showing them what the important things are that they need to do.

00:23:43,261 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:23:43,461 [Andy Hill]
And then doing that consistently, you know, and having that continue as part of who we are as an individual. I mean, even outside of money, if I say, “Hey, it’s important for you to, I don’t know, drink water every day, son,” you know, like I, I better be drinking water, you know? Or I better be… You know, if I say exercise is important-

00:23:58,961 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:23:59,381 [Andy Hill]
… I better be a guy who exercises. Or if I say, “Hey, it’s important not to spend more than you make,” then I better [laughs] I better be demonstrating that. And then in the opening con- open conversations that I have around money with my wife, if these are learning opportunities for our kids to be listening, allow them to come in. And then also see a part of the process that, you know, nobody’s perfect. You know, people can make mistakes, and maybe that failure that I have or we have in part of our marriage is something that we can share with our kids so that they get that learning opportunity. So I would say modeling is great, but yes, t-Close second, I would say would be personal experience because the more-

00:24:40,748 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:24:41,168 [Andy Hill]
… my kids have connection with money and can use the money and then make mistakes with it, uh, the better off that they’re gonna be learning because I, again, I could tell them, “Hey, you’re not gonna like this,” or, “You’re really not gonna enjoy how you’re gonna do this,” but they need to feel that. They need to feel the pain of wasting money on a toy that broke in the next five seconds, uh, that they saved up from their lemonade stand money after working for, for a while. Uh, that’s more impactful than me saying anything out of my mouth, honestly. So I would… If I had to rank them, I’d say modeling, personal experiences, then lectures.

00:25:16,448 [John Lanza]
Very nice. Thank you.

00:25:19,047 [John Lanza]
When you are… Let- let’s, let’s talk about this modeling side of things.

00:25:24,967 [Andy Hill]
Mm-hmm.

00:25:26,108 [John Lanza]
One of the issues that… Or actually, I shouldn’t even call it an issue. I feel like we’re on this kind of money smart junior- ju- [laughs] I feel like we’re on this money smart journey with our kids together, and I’ve noticed I, I’ve made… I, I probably learned as much on the journey as my kids have.

00:25:43,447 [Andy Hill]
Mm-hmm.

00:25:43,567 [John Lanza]
And I’m curious to know, were there changes that you and/or your wife made in this process that kind of improved your own money smarts, either purposefully to be better models or that you just learned in talking to your kids that you’ve kind of incorporated into your life?

00:26:02,667 [Andy Hill]
Yeah. Uh, the first thing that pops into my mind would be around generosity and giving. I would say in… Right around the time that we became mortgage-free, you know, I was talking to my kids about the importance of using some of your money to give and support causes that you believe in and help people who need help. And with that, I had a little introspection and saying, “Well, how much am I actually giving? How much am I…” You know, and if I say, “Hey, you should put a dollar of your $3 in your give jar,” am I even coming close to anything-

00:26:33,667 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:26:33,847 [Andy Hill]
… remotely close to that, even though I say how important it is? And I did a little calculation, and we were giving like 1% of our money. And, y- there’s, there’s nothing wrong with that, but based on my, you know, lecturing, you know, [laughs] that I, I really should have been modeling a little bit better. So… But for us at the time, even though we were doing well financially, it wasn’t super easy just to say, “Well, let me jump from 1% to 10%. Let me just do that real fast.” You know? Because-

00:26:59,707 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:26:59,907 [Andy Hill]
… you, you got a lot of things that are going on in life and a lot of, uh, ways that you’re utilizing your money. Um, so for us, at that point, I got inspired to say, “What can I do to sort of ladder up our giving so that I can be a good model to my children when I say, ‘Hey, it’s important to give a portion of your money’?” So we tried our best to go from 1% and then slowly move up. So in year one, we were at 1%. Year two, we got up to 3%, and then year f- uh, year three, we got up to 5%. So we just sort of jumped, uh, 2% points each year with regard to our giving. And then as we were doing that and those experiments, we kind of found different ways that we liked giving more than other ways. We said, “Well, you know, yes, it’s important to give to charities and causes that we believe in.” And, uh, throughout that process we found a lot that really called to our hearts, but then we also said, “Well, we love giving generously to family and friends.” You know? Like, “What can we do to maybe amp up the type of gift that we would say, uh, that we would give to maybe a nephew or niece that’s interested in investing for their first time? Wouldn’t that be cool to buy their first full share of an ETF-“

00:28:07,867 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:28:08,247 [Andy Hill]
“… when they wanna start their Roth IRA?” So we said, “Okay, well, let’s, let’s put some of that money towards things like that,” or, “If we attend a wedding, wouldn’t it be co- cool to give like a really big gift, you know? Really… A really v- generous gift.” So we, we felt like, okay, yeah, it’s important to give to charities and causes, but, yeah, we also wanna give to family and friends. And then also see sometimes around our neighborhood in Metro Detroit, people on the side of the road that are looking for a little handout or they’re looking for a little help, they’re looking for some support in the situation that they’re in. Or people are maybe on, uh, in our neighborhood and they’re starting a lemonade stand, or people are on the s- uh, street in Detroit doing, you know, entertainment, uh, or playing music. I always thought it would be kind of cool to be like, “Hey, I always have money for those people who are asking for it.” You know, whether that’s a dollar for somebody who’s, you know, down on their luck that just needs a little hand or $10 for the kid who does their lemonade stand and they’re only asking for 50 cents a cup, like, “Wouldn’t that be cool to generously give?” Those are the types of things that we’ve built up our generosity towards over the past four or five years, and our kids are seeing it because we’re modeling that behavior, and we also encourage them, again, to give a portion of their money in those fashions. So be able to give to your sister when it’s her, her birthday or be able to-

00:29:28,367 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:29:28,807 [Andy Hill]
… give to a charity that calls to your heart. Uh, and then obviously we help them with that process too. So we’ve filtered that into different buckets in their savings accounts, as well as creating traditions, like what I like to call the big give. Once a quarter we get together and we look at different charities that they might be interested in giving towards. We go to the milkshake shop and get some milkshakes, and we, we talk about w- who we’re gonna donate to. And then whoever they decide to donate to, my wife and I match that, and it’s a great way for us to do giving together as a family.

00:30:06,047 [John Lanza]
That is a wonderful answer to that question.

00:30:08,427 [Andy Hill]
[laughs]

00:30:08,487 [John Lanza]
Thank you, Andy.

00:30:09,167 [Andy Hill]
Oh, thank you. I’m, I’m glad, glad you think so.

00:30:11,327 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Okay, so what is the biggest mistake you see that parents are making in trying to raise their kids money smart?

00:30:21,147 [Andy Hill]
Hmm. Uh, I would say the biggest mistake is thinking that you have nothing to provide. You say, “Oh, well, I’m not-“

00:30:27,407 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:30:27,607 [Andy Hill]
“… financially set,” or, “I’m not financially super smart,” or, “I’m not a financial coach or a financial literacy expert, so what do I have to teach them?”You have so much to teach them, right? You have, you have… You can teach them about your ways, your, your values, your thoughts. Even small lessons like just taking them to the grocery store and talking about the different prices of different things and why that matters, and how competition is important when you see seven different ketchups [laughs] on, in the aisle, and how you make your decisions. Those are the small little daily decisions that we have to make as parents. So I think sometimes, parents think that since they’re not, you know, super wealthy or they’re not all together financially, that they have nothing to provide. I really think that they do, and it takes that modeling and the conversations you have with your children to maybe course correct, just like we did. You know, “Hey, you should really give a lot more.”

00:31:26,150 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:31:26,210 [Andy Hill]
But then you- you’re like, “Oh, wait, am I actually giving or…” “You should spend your money wisely.” “Wait, am I [laughs], am I spending my money wisely?”

00:31:33,789 [John Lanza]
[laughs].

00:31:34,269 [Andy Hill]
These are, these are great opportunities. So when we open our mouths to communicate and share, uh, we can also look introspectively and say, “Well, how am I doing with that?” And it’s just taking the time to think about it. And I think if parents give themselves a little break and a little grace and say, “We all have something to provide, no matter your money situation,” I think that’s a great starting place for a lot of parents.

00:31:58,109 [John Lanza]
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense, and it’s particularly true when the kids are younger, because you’re t- the concepts are so simple, so basic. And I do love the idea that we’re always learning and/or kind of re-emphasizing or reintroducing the importance of something. I remember now my, my kids are now 21 and 18, and the 21-year-old is away at college. We’re always talking to her about the importance of smart shopping, right?

00:32:25,649 [Andy Hill]
Mm-hmm.

00:32:25,669 [John Lanza]
You know, shopping at one store versus another. But it’s the idea also of looking, what are the greatest things that stores do now is having that, you know, and Amazon has this too, is looking at the unit cost.

00:32:36,009 [Andy Hill]
Hm.

00:32:36,029 [John Lanza]
So you can really make an apples to apples comparison. But when, it’s great when you tell it, talk to your kids about that, and then you have that, “Oh, I just gave this kind of lecture.” And then when you’re at the store, if you’re making sure you’re on that money smart journey with them, it reminds you, “I, I need to be paying attention to these, uh, to these unit costs and, and being a smart shopper myself.” And we typically are pretty good. Uh, my wife is probably a better smart shopper than I am, but I think when we’re talking to our kids about it, like, like you were saying, it’s, it’s kinda reinforces the importance of doing it yourself because you want to be… You wanna not be a hypocrite, and you wanna be a, as good a model for them as possible.

00:33:18,589 [Andy Hill]
Yeah, I, I, I think, um, with that, you know, falling into that stigma of talking about money is, is taboo and we shouldn’t do that, I would say that’s probably one of the biggest follies is that having conversations and open dialogue about these things, whether you’re right or wrong or whatever you perceive as right or wrong…

00:33:35,989 [John Lanza]
[laughs].

00:33:36,629 [Andy Hill]
Uh, you know, that, that’s like, that’s, you just gotta open up your mouth and have, have good conversation about it and, and share what you do know and share your thoughts and your experience, because there’s no perfect way of doing all these things. It’s, you know, you just have to find your own right way, and you can go on that journey together as a family. But if you don’t, if you decide, “Hey, we don’t talk about money ’cause that’s not what people do-” Uh, that, you know, obviously two guys on a podcast right now are, are… Think it is. [laughs]

00:34:00,089 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:34:00,129 [Andy Hill]
It could be a good place to start.

00:34:02,149 [John Lanza]
I think it’s a good place to start. And since we’re talking, talking about money sense and thinking about money, is there any important truth about money that you have learned? Like, this is the Andy Hill thing that very few people agree with you on, where you kind of counter the prevailing opinion when it comes to money.

00:34:22,309 [Andy Hill]
Counter thing that I say about money. Yeah, I would say that, um, all financial decisions don’t have to, you know, fit perfectly into a calculator and, and have the optimal financial, you know, decision come from it. I would say there’s a lot of things that we can do with our money and our time that will give us a higher return on happiness than maybe a return on interest or return on money. Um, you know, for example, for my wife and I, uh, paying off our mortgage, as I spoke about earlier, wasn’t the most financially optimal thing to do, but it definitely gave us a maximum return on happiness because my wife was able to leave a career in industry that she really didn’t like. Uh…

00:35:10,949 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:35:11,009 [Andy Hill]
… but we felt like we needed to keep that job because we, we couldn’t afford a life, uh, without it. And so for us, when we needed less money coming, w- when we didn’t have as high of expenses, we didn’t need to make as much money, so she was able to go part-time and then eventually full-time. Uh, we also, you know, tend to believe in this concept of coast FIRE, you know, essentially front-loading your investments so that you can let time and compound interest do a lot of the heavy lifting for you in your 40s, 50s, and 60s before you get to retirement. And that has allowed us to decrease the amount we’re investing too. And so now we’re able to use a lot more of that money towards things that maximize our joy now when we’re in our, you know, 40s with two kids and, uh, spend a lot less time working. So I, those are a little bit countercultural things to do, but we’re very happy working part-time, both of us now, and spending a lot more time living full-time. So, um, those are some things that we, we believe in, and, uh, will they work out in the long run? Who knows? But we’re trying them out. [laughs]

00:36:16,449 [John Lanza]
That’s, that’s a trickle down that I, uh, can get in league with. The idea that this all started with your getting, getting rid of the debt and then paying off your house, and it just, it opens up all those options. And speaking of modeling, that’s a great thing for, uh, your kids to see. And so we’re talking about you being a very influential person and your, and your, and your wife being an influential person, um, in your kids’ lives, but I’m curious, who’s the most influential person in your life when it comes to the way that you think about money?

00:36:47,608 [Andy Hill]
Mm.

00:36:49,747 [Andy Hill]
In my life… Well, you know, I would say that I am blessed enough to have both my parents with me today. They’re in their mid to late 70s, and they have been excellent models to me for my entire life. Um, my… I would say my mom was… If I could think back to some of my first memories, my mom helped me to get my first savings account and instilled in me the importance of, you know, definitely saving and putting money away for, you know, bigger things that you’re interested in in the future. My dad was always working hard at his career and growing his, his, his salary over the years, and showed me the importance of putting in, you know, putting in the hours to, to grow your career and growing your salary, and all the benefits that can come with that. So I would say between the two of them, I learned so much about money. And now that they’re in their 70s, they are modeling all that hard work with the reward that they have. They’re able to travel and utilize their retirement time to get exposure to different countries and cultures, and spend more time focused on their health. And they always seem to make time to even attend my kids’ soccer games and flag football games.

00:38:09,487 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:38:09,507 [Andy Hill]
And they’re modeling to me what I want to be doing in my 60s and 70s. Yes, I’m gonna definitely love and enjoy traveling and, and all that goes in with that, but they also still find to… They still… They also still find time to be a major, uh, part of our lives now here in, in Michigan. So they are definitely my great examples. They have been since I was a kid, and they are now, um, now that I have kids. [laughs]

00:38:34,727 [John Lanza]
Very nice. Thank you for sharing that. Uh, what’s your earliest memory of your parents talking to you about money?

00:38:41,427 [Andy Hill]
I would say this is probably when I was in elementary school, and I would start to earn money through allowance at home. You know, they would have a, a set of chores for me to do at the house. And when I completed those chores, they would provide some money for me to use how I wanted. And knowing that my, my mom would talk about the importance of saving, I would save a little bit of it. Um, but I would spend a whole lot of it on candy, uh-

00:39:08,687 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:39:08,727 [Andy Hill]
… which was, which was a great reward when you’re, [laughs] when you’re in elementary school. [laughs]

00:39:13,467 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:39:14,387 [Andy Hill]
Um, so yeah, I remember, I remember conversations around helping out around the house and contributing. And, uh, with that, they wanted to show me that a reward would come with it. So I- I’m, I’m… I was very influenced by their, their modeling of, of what it means to contribute to a family, and the fact that

00:39:32,567 [Andy Hill]
we don’t just get things handed to us. Um, so it’s important for us to contribute, and with that, you can get some, some money to enjoy life. And those are great lessons that I still have with me today. So yeah, very happy to have had that influence from my parents.

00:39:45,587 [John Lanza]
Well, very nice, Andy. Now, are you ready to go through the fast and fun round question gauntlet?

00:39:55,167 [Andy Hill]
Yes, let’s do it.

00:39:57,047 [John Lanza]
All right, here we go. Question number one, what does the term “money empowered” mean to you, Andy Hill?

00:40:05,027 [Andy Hill]
Money empowered means to me that I have control over my money, so that I can,

00:40:12,567 [Andy Hill]
um, utilize my money in a way where I’m, um, maximizing the values that I have in my life.

00:40:18,147 [John Lanza]
Very nice. What is the best investment of time or m- or money you’ve ever spent on your kids?

00:40:26,367 [Andy Hill]
Hmm, best investment of time or money I’ve spent on my kids. I really enjoyed the years that I was focused on doing one-on-one time with my kids. And I would do that every other month for… I probably did it for five or six years straight. And this really helped us to create some beautiful core memories together. And I loved the special time that we had individually, and I, I hope that they did too.

00:40:53,867 [John Lanza]
Very nice.

00:40:55,547 [John Lanza]
What advice to your kids do you most hope that they will heed? Now, this is a tough question because I know you give a lot of advice to your kids. [laughs]

00:41:04,447 [Andy Hill]
[laughs]

00:41:06,607 [Andy Hill]
Um, let’s see. I would say… [laughs] That’s a tough one. I would say that the advice that I hope my kids heed is that, especially with regard to money,

00:41:18,687 [Andy Hill]
yes, money can provide a sense of happiness, but it’s not going to provide all, uh, that you need in your life. Uh, so use it as a tool to help you get the things you want out of life, but know that it is not the end-all, be-all.

00:41:35,687 [John Lanza]
If you could transmit a message that everyone would see, sky-written on a billboard, whatever, what would that message say?

00:41:44,567 [Andy Hill]
I would say that message would be focus on the things that matter most. And when you feel like you are lost,

00:41:53,707 [Andy Hill]
go back and look at those values and make sure that you are focusing your area on that. Because we can often get lost in all that happens, uh, throughout the day and through our lives, but if we take the time to really think about what matters most, um,

00:42:10,527 [Andy Hill]
course-correcting is always possible.

00:42:12,147 [John Lanza]
And what is the one…

00:42:14,827 [John Lanza]
You could even have two, but, uh, Money Smarts book, podcast, or frankly, any media that either you go back to the most often, or that you gift the, gift the most often, um, that is not yours?

00:42:29,007 [Andy Hill]
Hmm.

00:42:29,227 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:42:30,367 [Andy Hill]
Yeah. I would say, you know, one book that I really enjoy a lot is from Joshua Becker called Things That Matter, and he is a content creator online that talks all about, uh, minimalism and the importance of, you know, uh, thinking small so you can do big things in your life. And this book specifically talks about…… and re-aligning your focus on the things that matter, and I would highly recommend it.

00:42:59,153 [John Lanza]
Very nice. So as we wrap things up, Andy, how can people find you on social media and/or the web?

00:43:06,893 [Andy Hill]
Yeah. You can follow me @marriagekidsandmoney on Instagram or Facebook, or you can go to my website, marriagekidsandmoney.com, or if you’re listening to this podcast, just type in Marriage Kids and Money.

00:43:18,373 [John Lanza]
[laughs] And we will put links to all of this, uh, in the show notes. And finally, what is one action that you’d like other people to take that would be helpful for you?

00:43:30,333 [Andy Hill]
Well, I do have a course that I just came out with called Make My Kid a Millionaire. It’s, uh, 10 Steps to Helping Your Kids Build Wealth and Happiness. I have a free section for that course, if you’re interested in checking that out, at makemykidamillionaire.com. And that is, um, something I’m really proud of and worked on for a really long time, so I’d appreciate you checking it out.

00:43:51,733 [John Lanza]
Well great. Congratulations on that. We will again put that in the show notes. And Andy, I just want to thank you for coming on the podcast because I learned a lot. I think our audience learned a lot. And you’ve just got so much wisdom sh- to share and I really appreciate you taking the time to be with us.

00:44:08,953 [Andy Hill]
Thank you John, and thank you for creating this platform to help us all grow. [instrumental music]

00:44:18,573 [John Lanza]
I really appreciate you taking your valuable time to listen to this episode. I hope you found it useful. You can find detailed show notes for this and all past episodes at themoneymammals.com. That’s T-H-E M-O-N-E-Y-M-A-M-M-A-L-S.com. Just click the Podcast and Blog link at the top of our homepage to discover our entire podcast archive. And if you like my work here, please, please leave a rating, or even better, a review on whichever service that you use to stream these podcast episodes. You are part of our Money Smart movement, and this podcast plays an important role in that movement. Your rating and review will help other people like us find this material. And lastly, if you’d like three ideas to help you raise money smart kids delivered directly to your inbox each week, I think you’ll really love my weekly newsletter. Just click on the little purple circle with the chat icon at themoneymammals.com and select “Get our newsletter.” Of course, please consult with an investment or financial professional before engaging in any decisions that might affect your financial wellbeing. And until next time, don’t forget to enjoy the journey. [instrumental music]

1 thought on “AOA 073: The Family Share Jar – Giving Together with Andy Hill”

Comments are closed.