AOA 034: Is there a case for tying chores to allowance? — With Guest Cameron Huddleston

“I think it’s okay to let your kids make mistakes because that’s how we learn.”
— Cameron Huddleston

Is there a case for tying chores to allowance?

If so, then Cameron Huddleston will make it. Cameron is an award-winning journalist with more than 18 years of experience writing about personal finance. Her work has appeared in and on Kiplinger’s Personal Finance, Business Insider, Chicago Tribune, Forbes, MSN, Yahoo and many more print and online publications. She also is a mom of three and is married to an economist.

During this episode, Cameron and I address not only the great allowance and chore debate but also the taboo nature of financial conversations and how to help parents feel comfortable talking with their children about money. We also discuss how “adult kids” can open up a dialogue with their parents about finances and possessions, the subject of Cameron’s new book, Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances. Cameron’s case for linking chores and allowance underscores the varying viewpoints I like to feature on this podcast and highlights the need for parents to craft their own Art of Allowance based on multiple perspectives and their family’s values.

Links (From the Show)

• Keeping up with The Joneses
• What Cameron teaches her kids about money
• Why Cameron believes you don’t need a budget
• Talking with your parents about stuff you don’t want
• Cameron’s new book, Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances
• Visiting Cameron’s website

Show Notes (Find what’s most interesting to you!)

• A little about Cameron and her personal finance journalism career [2:35]
• Why is money a taboo topic? [3:52]
• Should you tell your child what you make? [5:28]
• How do we deal with “Keeping up with The Joneses” conversations? [7:54]
• Saying “no” to your child in an age-appropriate way [9:45]
• How Cameron, a money expert, set up a system for her kids that links allowance to chores [13:56]
• A debit card’s impact on Cameron’s “natural saver” [18:19]
• How Cameron used “The Waiting Period” to guide her son’s spending behavior [21:17]
• Cameron’s own experience influences her thoughts on her kids’ making money mistakes while they’re young [26:25]
• Cameron and I discuss her tying allowance to chores and whether there’s been any conflict as a result. [30:17]
• Musings on the family’s “dish system” [35:31]
• Cameron’s acknowledgement that each family will have its own Art of Allowance [38:14]
• Is discussing money with your kids too stressful? [40:48]
• Cameron’s interpretation of money empowerment [43:26]
• Devoting time to having money conversations [44:04]
• The relationship between gratitude and satisfaction [45:26]
• “Just be nice to people.” [46:16]
• Why a personal finance writer doesn’t have a book recommendation for youth money smarts [47:43]
• Cameron’s new book, Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances [48:15]
• What adult kids need to know about discussing finances and possessions with their parents [49:37]
• Cameron’s wish for parents to feel comfortable talking with their kids about money [55:13]

Click here for the full transcript.

If you liked this episode …

Interested in another take on tying chores to allowance? Author David Owen shares why he believes allowance and chores shouldn’t be linked. Give our conversation a listen beginning at 43:54.

In the mood for more? David and I also discuss learning financial lessons in a low-stakes environment, echoing Cameron’s ideas on kids’ making money mistakes. You can listen in at 24:18 for his thoughts.

Please Subscribe

If you like this podcast, then please give us a review and subscribe to the show. The Art of Allowance Podcast is available on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher or Radio Public. Subscribing is free, and it will help me produce more enriching content for you to enjoy. Thanks!

You might also want to check out The Money Mammals, our program to get your children excited about money smarts when they’re young. Until next time, I wish you and your family well as you journey forth.

Thanks for listening.

John

Full Transcript

This transcript is from The Art of Allowance Podcast, Episode 34, featuring host John Lanza and guest Cameron Huddleston.

00:00:00,280 [John Lanza]
Hello and welcome to Episode 34 of the Art of Allowance podcast.

00:00:07,000 [Cameron Huddleston]
You know, I think the best investment of time is with my kids, has actually been talking to them about money, having these conversations because I am teaching them to be money empowered, which we just discussed. [laughs] I don’t feel like I’m giving up my time by devoting time to help my kids understand money better and understanding how to use it responsibly. I think as a parent, it is my responsibility to teach kids these things, and so I don’t think of it as a burden at all. [upbeat music]

00:00:54,199 [John Lanza]
In today’s episode, I speak with Cameron Huddleston. Cameron is an award-winning journalist with more than 18 years of experience writing about personal finance. Her work has appeared in and on Kiplinger’s Personal Finance, Business Insider, Chicago Tribune, Forbes, MSN, Yahoo, and many more print and online publications. She is also a mom of three and is married to an economist. And as you’ll see, all that factors into our discussion. Cameron and I address not only the great allowance and chore debate, but also the taboo nature of financial conversations and how to help parents feel comfortable talking with their children about money. We also discuss how adult kids can open up a dialogue with their parents about finances and possessions stuff. It’s the subject of Cameron’s new book, Mom and Dad We Need to Talk!: How to Have Essential Conversations With Your Parents About Their Finances. Cameron’s case for linking chores and allowance underscores the varying viewpoints that I like to feature on this podcast, and it really highlights the need for parents to craft their own art of allowance based on multiple perspectives and their own family’s values. So I hope you enjoy this new conversation. [upbeat music] Today I am talking with Cameron Huddleston. Welcome, Cameron.

00:02:26,739 [Cameron Huddleston]
Hi. Thanks so much for having me.

00:02:29,159 [John Lanza]
Well, I’m excited to have you on the podcast. I think you’re gonna have a lot of good information to share, and I think the best way to start off is tell us a little bit about yourself.

00:02:38,999 [Cameron Huddleston]
I am a mother of three kids, ages 15, 13, and 8, and I’m also a personal finance journalist. I have been writing about personal finance for nearly 20 years now, and it just, [laughs] it almost pains me to say that because it makes me feel old-

00:02:55,519 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:02:55,539 [Cameron Huddleston]
… when I talk about how long I’ve been writing about personal finance. I’ve been a journalist for even longer.

00:03:01,839 [John Lanza]
Well, it’s good to have someone like you with broad knowledge on this, uh, on finance, because I think it’s, it’s always good to take a little step back. And that’s kind of where I wanted to, uh, to start, which is I was reading a post of yours, and it was talking about, it was talking about kind of what you wanna teach your kids about money. But one of the points that you brought up there is this, this point that money is such a taboo subject. And it’s certainly something we, I’ve talked with other guests about. But I wanted to ask you in the broad sense why you think that money remains a taboo subject. Has it changed in the 20 years you’ve been writing about it? Just give us some perspective on, you know, [laughs] the beast that is money in a conversation.

00:03:48,939 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs] Uh, I, I do certainly think that money is still a taboo topic, perhaps not as much as it used to be, but I think it depends on the generation you’re in. Certainly, I’m Generation X. Um, Generation X, Baby Boomers, Silent Generation, it’s still much more of a taboo topic among those generations than it is among Millennials, I feel. But really the key reason that money is such a taboo topic is because there can be a lot of, um, discomfort and guilt,

00:04:27,079 [Cameron Huddleston]
um, a sense of shame around money. And think about it this way. If you get into a conversation with someone about money, in particular how much money you make, you might feel guilty if you make more than the person you’re talking to or you might feel ashamed if you make less. And

00:04:47,939 [Cameron Huddleston]
because of this shame, it can just make it difficult to talk it about, talk about. You don’t wanna feel like, you know, your friend’s gonna be uncomfortable around you if they know you make more and you don’t want to feel like you are

00:05:01,059 [Cameron Huddleston]
less-

00:05:01,879 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:05:02,059 [Cameron Huddleston]
… than that friend who is making more than you are. So it’s just understandable that people might not want to talk about money, at least not talk about how much money they make. I do certainly feel like people are more willing to talk about ways to save money, ways to improve their finances. But that conversation about how much we’re earning, that can still be taboo for a lot of people.

00:05:26,479 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:05:28,079 [John Lanza]
Where do you fall on the idea that you can or should or shouldn’t share what you make with your kids? ‘Cause there’s, you know, different people fall on different sides of that, um, debate. I’m curious to know what your thoughts are on that.

00:05:47,759 [Cameron Huddleston]
So I think it depends on the child, the child’s personality, and the child’s age. Uh, and just, you know, to give you an example with my own kids, so I-… I share a lot more with my daughters, who are 13 and 15, than with my son, in large part because of their age. They understand money better than my son does. And I can trust them not to go and share information that I’m sharing with them with their friends, and, and, you know, uh, the same thing kind of applies. I don’t want my kids to go and say, “Oh, hey, we have this and that and that. You know, does your family have this?” I know that my daughters aren’t gonna say that, and I’m not saying that we are privileged in any way. I just know that whatever I tell them, they’re not gonna go and repeat it to their friends, which could create discomfort with their friends. My son, I don’t [laughs] I don’t have that level-

00:06:44,404 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:06:44,623 [Cameron Huddleston]
… of trust with him.

00:06:46,823 [Cameron Huddleston]
And I, and I, I hate to say that, you know? Um, you know, and so he does ask. He actually asked that question recently, “Mom, how much money do you make?” And I told him, “I, you know, your dad and I make enough money that we can pay our bills, that we can afford to live in the house that we live in, and we can have extra money to do things we enjoy.” And he kept pressing me. “How, but tell me how much. Tell me exactly how much. How much money do you have in your bank account?” And I simply said, “I don’t think you need to know this right now. Maybe I’ll share a little bit more information with you when you are older.”

00:07:22,423 [John Lanza]
Mm, uh, I like that. I like the comfort that… I mean, uh, th- it’s obvious, you know, in… that you’ve opened up the conversation with him, and obviously with them, and that is, that, that’s a, that’s a key part of this. W- I’m curious though, a question, is it because of his personality, or is it his, just the age? Because it does make-

00:07:43,903 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:07:44,063 [John Lanza]
… sense that at that age, that- you don’t know what they’re gonna do with that information, and that could just be problematic.

00:07:51,563 [Cameron Huddleston]
So it is both. My son has much more of a Keeping Up with the Joneses type of personality. He very much pays attention to what his friends have and notices things that they have that he does not have, and is constantly [laughs], constantly asking for things. “So-and-so has this, can I have this? So-and-so ca- has this, can I have this?” And so we have lots of conversations about that, about not being able to get everything you want. And so my, my feeling is that if I start sharing really specific details about his finances, that he’s gonna turn around and tell his friends. And I just, I, I don’t think that he and his friends, as eight-year-olds, should be getting into that sorta [laughs] conversation right now. And who knows what it’s gonna lead to? I feel like as he gets older and he becomes more mature, I can share more information and trust that he’s not going to misinterpret it.

00:08:47,743 [John Lanza]
Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense, ’cause I c- uh, I could see that, and that’s, it’s good that you have that, uh, [laughs] that understanding with where he might go with it. I remember reading one of your posts about his Keeping Up with the Joneses-

00:08:59,283 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:08:59,763 [John Lanza]
… um, issue. But Keeping Up with the Joneses is a good pla- that’s a, that’s a good place for us to plant a flag for a second, because it’s such a big part of dealing with kind of money learning and this idea with kids that… ‘Cause they’re gonna inevitably ask you, uh, “Well, this person has this. Why can’t we have this?” And so when your kid, when, when your son has asked you those ques- Do you have any examples of how parents can have the conversation with their kids effectively when they’re asking for something? Especially when they’re asking for something that clearly you have the money for-

00:09:36,783 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:09:37,443 [John Lanza]
… but, you know, you don’t wanna just open up the floodgates, right? So, any, any helpful advice there?

00:09:45,063 [Cameron Huddleston]
So again, this comes down to the age of the child. Uh, certainly now that my son is eight and he does have his own source of income through an allowance, oftentimes when he will ask for something that we can afford but we don’t, you know, think that we should be buying him, because really he doesn’t need every toy [laughs] he asks for-

00:10:05,143 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:10:05,663 [Cameron Huddleston]
… I will tell him, “You have money. This is what your allowance is for. If this is something you really want, you can buy it.” When he was younger, um, you know, and I couldn’t make that argument as easily, I would often say to him, “Well, you know, that’s great that your friend has this, but I’m sure there are things that you have that your friend doesn’t have, and we have to make choices about how we spend our money.” And I would often tell him, as I tell my daughters too, “You know, in our family, we value experiences. We value travel.” And, you know, telling my son, “I know you love the trips that we take, and if we spent all our money on every toy you wanted, we couldn’t take as many fun trips. Don’t you love to take those trips?” And he always says, “Yeah, I love those trips.” And then I say, “Well, that’s why we don’t buy-“

00:10:54,203 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:10:54,563 [Cameron Huddleston]
“… as many toys as you always ask for.” [laughs]

00:10:56,843 [John Lanza]
Yep.

00:10:56,983 [Cameron Huddleston]
So, you know, I, I don’t, I think, you know, sometimes when they’re really young, it’s okay to say no to your child and just say, “No, I’m sorry, we’re not getting that right now.” Because if you try to reason with them when they’re two, three years old, you can’t reason very well with a toddler. As they get older, I think it’s okay to start offering more and more of an explanation as to why you’re not going to get that item. Uh, and, and that’s a good opportunity to start sharing your family’s values. Um, you certainly don’t want to scare your child and make them feel like they, that they are in an insecure environment because the parents can’t afford things, even if you can’t afford those things. I think it’s important when they’re young to couch it in such a way that you’re not letting them think that you, your family is in financial peril. Because then that’s gonna let them feel insecure and worried about things that maybe they shouldn’t necessarily be worried about at such a young age.

00:11:52,723 [John Lanza]
Yeah, that’s a very good point. And the, the age appropriateness of conversation is, is very important to keep in mind, ’cause that’s, that is true. You do not want these kids to be suffering from any kind of toxic stress, um-… that, you know, you yourself may be suffering from if you’re in a situation where you are literally living paycheck to paycheck. And, uh, so that’s, that- that is very helpful advice. And what’s- what’s interesting about doing these, or having these conversations and opening up the conversations with kids is that, you know, you get to have a conversation about op- opportunity cost without saying the word opportunity cost to him and him rolling his eyes, just like, “Ugh, lecture. Lecture time, not listening.” Whereas you’re talking about travel versus buying these, you know, endless amounts of stuff, now he gets it, right?

00:12:41,875 [Cameron Huddleston]
Right. Actually, though, if it’s- if it’s coming from my husband, who’s an economist, he, you know, my kids sometimes hear those words [laughs]. So, not that often, but occasionally, so.

00:12:52,416 [John Lanza]
[laughs] That’s funny. That’s where, uh… So lecture time does happen from time to time.

00:12:57,495 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:12:58,495 [John Lanza]
[Laughs] Well, my- my, uh, my kids have to put up with lecture time from- from time to time, but- but you do know that’s like the experience is really… That’s- that’s the biggest teacher for them. Um, and… So- so let’s, i- in terms of experience, let’s, uh… How- how do you like that segue right there?

00:13:14,695 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:13:15,435 [John Lanza]
Um… [laughs] So let’s delve into this allowance. So this is interesting because you’ve got, you know, you’ve got a younger kid and then you’ve got your older daughters, so they’ve kind of been through this process. So, uh, on this show, I like to delve into the weed- to get into the weeds, like, h- tell us about how your program, how you started your program for your 15-year-old, how you modified it for your 13-year-old, and now how you’ve modified it for your seven-year-old, keeping in mind the different personalities and- and then, and your own learning as you’ve gone through the process. So I know there’s a lot loaded into that question, but we can kind of unpack that, um, kid by kid.

00:13:56,455 [Cameron Huddleston]
Okay. So I feel like our system has certainly evolved over time. Um, with

00:14:06,615 [Cameron Huddleston]
my daughters, it started as more of a, um,

00:14:13,155 [Cameron Huddleston]
it w- uh, it wasn’t super structured, I should say, and I, and, you know, that was something I learned was a mistake. [laughs] Uh, and, um, so, you know, initially they, my husband in particular felt very strongly about tying allowance to doing work. And, you know, I agree too. I think it is important for- for kids to learn that in the real world you- you don’t get paid for doing nothing. You do have to work to earn money. And so, you know, we kind of had this- a very, a system where the kids could earn money by doing certain chores. Of course they were expected to do things around the house just because they’re part of a family. We have pets, for example, so my daughters have to feed the cats, they have to scoop the cat litter, and they are required to do that [laughs]. They are, they have to do their own laundry. You know, they’re old enough to do their own laundry, so they have to do that. Uh, those are just some examples of things that they have to do without any sort of payment. Um, but more recently, we actually,

00:15:23,755 [Cameron Huddleston]
we created a whole spreadsheet, uh, you know, in this-

00:15:26,775 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:15:27,315 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs] Probably makes sense when dad is an economist-

00:15:30,235 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:15:30,315 [Cameron Huddleston]
… and mom is a financial writer, that we have this spreadsheet that hangs up on the refrigerator. And

00:15:36,475 [Cameron Huddleston]
the way it works is there’s a list of things that the kids are expected to do. And you have to do it. I mean, th- it’s- it’s not negotiable. It’s not like, “Oh, if you do it, you get paid.” These are the things you do every single week. You bring your dishes over to the sink, you put ’em in the dishwasher. You don’t leave your shoes sitting around in a common space, you take it to your room. You don’t leave your clothes sitting out, those go to your room. You have to keep your room clean, make up your bed. Um, my daughters share a bathroom, so every other weekend they take turns cleaning up the bathroom, they’re expected to vacuum their room. I mean, even my son, my eight-year-old son has to make up his bed. Now, it doesn’t have to be perfect.

00:16:19,035 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:16:19,315 [Cameron Huddleston]
It’s okay. I mean, he just, you know, essentially has to get the kind of the, pull the covers up or whatever. And then because he, his room almost doubles as a playroom, I allow him to keep toys out during the week. But every Sunday, they’ve gotta be cleaned entirely. You know, by the end of the day, all those toys need to be put up so he can start fresh, pull ’em out again during the week. But, um,

00:16:44,175 [Cameron Huddleston]
so the deal is that if they don’t do a particular task, there is a monetary amount attached to it, and I will mark off on that spreadsheet that they haven’t done it on that date and they will lose money from their allowance.

00:16:59,815 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:17:00,315 [Cameron Huddleston]
So my son gets paid weekly, my daughters get paid monthly, directly deposited into a checking account. He gets cash, actual cash into, and he’s got three jars, save, give, and spend. And he can choose how he wants to divide it up. I don’t tell him that he has to put a certain amount because when you’re an adult, you have to make those decisions on your own. So I want him getting used to making those decisions so he can, you know, divide up his cash how he wants to. And I will be honest, he has raided some of his jars [laughs]-

00:17:34,915 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:17:35,415 [Cameron Huddleston]
… to spend on things that he wanted. But that was a choice he made, and then you suffer the consequences when you realize, “Oh, maybe I shouldn’t have spent that much money on that thing and now I wish I had money for something else I really want, or I wanna have money to give to a fundraiser at school.” Um,

00:17:54,535 [Cameron Huddleston]
but, and I- I, we keep into cash for him because he is, I feel like at his age, as at eight years old, he- he needs to see that money, not hide it away in a bank account where he can’t touch it, where he can’t interact with it as well. And, you know, it’s- it’s more painful when you have to take all those dollars out of your spending jar to go pay for something you want. Um, whereas, you know, my 15-year-old, she’s got the debit card that she can use. And I will tell you, um, that…She, my daughter, my oldest daughter, has always been a natural saver.

00:18:28,663 [John Lanza]
Hmm.

00:18:29,063 [Cameron Huddleston]
And hoards her money. [laughs]

00:18:32,123 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:18:32,543 [Cameron Huddleston]
And, I mean, she, she is so reluctant to part with her cash, but when we opened the bank account for her and she got the debit card, I noticed she was willing to loosen those purse strings a little bit more. And, you know, everything I’ve always read, studies and stuff about how it’s so much easier for people to use a credit card because they’re not actually handing over that cash, they’re not feeling the actual pain of that transaction, I saw it play out with my daughter. Not that she’s become a big spender, but she’s more willing to spend with the debit card-

00:19:07,743 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:19:07,983 [Cameron Huddleston]
… than she was when it was just cash, which was, you know, really interesting to kind of watch that happen. But so we do have a structured system now, and it’s working well because the kids do what they’re supposed to do. They don’t wanna lose any money. [laughs]

00:19:24,343 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:19:24,383 [Cameron Huddleston]
Any money out of their allowance. You know, a c- a couple of times when my son has lost, you know, and he, you know, his monetary deductions are pretty small since he’s not getting a large amount of money, but it’s upset him.

00:19:37,243 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:19:37,323 [Cameron Huddleston]
“Oh, no, I can’t believe it, I’m so upset. I, I’m sorry I didn’t make up my bed, you know, and please don’t take my money away.”

00:19:43,623 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Right.

00:19:43,643 [Cameron Huddleston]
And I’m like, “Look, this is the deal, man.” [laughs]

00:19:45,483 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:19:46,003 [Cameron Huddleston]
“You didn’t do your job, I had to do it for you, and so now you owe me money because I did your job for you.” And, um, for the most part, they’re, they’re doing their chores. And my daughters monitor each other, you know, “Oh, she didn’t clean the bathroom last week.” And-

00:20:01,603 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:20:01,623 [Cameron Huddleston]
Or, “She’s not doing this.” [laughs]

00:20:03,203 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:20:03,803 [Cameron Huddleston]
So they’re policing each other too.

00:20:05,743 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:20:06,163 [Cameron Huddleston]
Um, but they do know too that when, we will get them, of course, certain things. We’ll buy them clothing, but if they want,

00:20:15,623 [Cameron Huddleston]
if they have plenty of clothing and they want something additional or something that’s gonna cost more than we would usually spend, they’ve got to either pay for it or pay for a portion of it. They, if there are things they want, they have to pay for it, and, you know, knowing that they should be setting aside money to save for the future, and if they, you know, having money that they can give. ‘Cause my son, you know, he did use that money that was in his give jar to make a contribution at school when they had Jump Rope for Heart. And part of it was he was driven because they have prizes.

00:20:47,723 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:20:48,603 [Cameron Huddleston]
You know, all these fundraisers at school, they’re all tied to prizes. And man, if one kid’s getting a prize, he’s got to get the prize too. So, [laughs] you know, part of the reason that he wanted to make a donation is so he could get prizes. But

00:21:01,923 [Cameron Huddleston]
he was very willing to use his own money, which I thought was wonderful.

00:21:06,203 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Well, that’s, uh, Chuck E. Cheese made an entire business on, uh, on this desire to get really crummy prizes. [laughs]

00:21:14,163 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:21:15,863 [John Lanza]
I, I, I remember you, I think you wrote in one of your posts about the fact that he wanted a prize, and it was some kind of, some junky wristband or something like that. You said, “Listen,” and, and he was, he was kind of guilting you into donating more money, I think, right? And-

00:21:33,883 [Cameron Huddleston]
Yes

00:21:34,023 [John Lanza]
… why, why don’t you, why don’t you finish that story because I thought this was interesting ’cause y- you went, you went on Amazon and you… [laughs]

00:21:40,443 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:21:42,023 [John Lanza]
You tell us.

00:21:42,743 [Cameron Huddleston]
So yes, so his, his, uh, his school, he goes to a public elementary school, uh, all of my kids go to public school. And in elementary school they’re, I feel like they’re constantly having fundraisers, and I understand. You know, I mean, they have, you know, limited cash to pay for things like new playground equipment. I mean, even books at time. So they do have these fundraisers, and like I said, the fundraisers are tied to prizes. The more money you raise, the

00:22:12,903 [Cameron Huddleston]
more prizes you get, and because he has to have everything his friends have, you know, if they’re winning a prize, he wants to win it too. So there was, this was, I don’t know, maybe a year or so ago, and there was a prize that he desperately wanted but he had to, you know, raise enough money to get it. And [sighs] we have a, kind of a unique situation. I can’t reach out to friends to make contributions because they all have kids.

00:22:41,603 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:22:41,883 [Cameron Huddleston]
So I’m not gonna ask my friends to contribute to my child’s fundraiser ’cause they’re doing the same thing for their own kids.

00:22:47,003 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:22:47,423 [Cameron Huddleston]
And we don’t have family members we can ask because my father’s no longer living, my mother has Alzheimer’s, my husband’s family is in another country, and I have one sister. So, you know, I can’t keep hitting up-

00:23:03,323 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:23:03,343 [Cameron Huddleston]
… my sister. [laughs]

00:23:05,163 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:23:06,183 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs] I can’t ask her to contribute to every fundraiser my kid has, maybe one, you know, I’ll ask her once a year or so. So, you know, he wanted more money and I told him, “Okay, well, you can donate your own money.” So he dumps out all his coins and his dollar bills and he’s counting it up and he doesn’t have quite enough to get the prize he wanted. And I said, “Well, you know what? I bet you could get this prize, I bet you could buy it. Let’s check Amazon and see how much it costs.” And we found out that he could get two for $9 or something like that. And he’s like, “Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah-“

00:23:41,363 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:23:42,023 [Cameron Huddleston]
“… we’re going to do this. We’re gonna do it.” And I said, “Okay, but wait.” And this was at the beginning of the week. I said, “You know what? I know you really want it now, but let’s wait until the end of the week to see if you still want it.” And about halfway through the week, he’s like, “Mom, I still want that prize. I still want that prize.” And I said, “Okay, but it’s not the end of the week yet. We’re gonna wait until the end of the week.” Well, so the Friday came and the school actually had this celebration of sorts for the fundraising ’cause the fundraiser was over and they had this color run where all the kids ran outside on the playground and they, I don’t know, sprayed some sort of-

00:24:17,463 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:24:17,843 [Cameron Huddleston]
… washable color on them and, and then they had a dance after school. And then his friend invited him o- over after the dance. So he was so excited about all those things that he forgot about the prize. [laughs] He didn’t waste his nine bucks on some-… dinky thing that he would have used only once, and we talked about it after that, you know, “You forgot about that prize. Aren’t you glad you didn’t waste your money on it?” “Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m really glad I didn’t waste my money.” Now, that isn’t to say he hasn’t wasted his money since then on things, but when he did the last time,

00:24:52,831 [Cameron Huddleston]
he… the item broke. Like, he really wanted something at a, a, the book fair at school, and he spent his money. It broke when he got home. He’s like, “Oh, I wasted my money,” and I’m like, “Yes, we tried to talk you out of it-

00:25:05,991 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:25:06,011 [Cameron Huddleston]
… but you didn’t listen.” He’s like, “I know, I think I learned my lesson.” [laughs]

00:25:11,591 [John Lanza]
I love that because, you know, eh, this idea of the waiting, we have a, we have a waiting period as well. We do that with certain priced items, you know, if they want… If they haven’t been saving in their save jar, ’cause we have the three-jar system as well, and so when we… When they aren’t… When they haven’t saved for something, but it’s, say, $50, more than $50, we say, “That’s fine, but you have to wait a week before you go ahead and purchase that. And then for $100, you have to wait two weeks. And you, you can set a- ha- you can set those parameters however works for your family, but the main point is the point that you’re making, which is, you know, you give yourself that little bit, that little bit of buffer, and you may realize that this item is not something that you really do want ultimately. And that’s, and that’s a good… I like your point that, one, it’s just a good reference point to come back to at some point with him, you know, that you waited and then you found out you didn’t want it, and also, it doesn’t mean that you’re inoculating him against mistakes, you know? [laughs] There, you know, none of these things are guaranteeing that the mistake, another mistake isn’t right around the corner. It probably is. But you’re giving them the opportunity to make these mistakes in this kind of low-stakes environment when it really doesn’t matter that much, right?

00:26:23,791 [Cameron Huddleston]
Exactly, yes, and I think it’s okay to let your kids make mistakes because that’s how we learn. If you, if you make every

00:26:33,491 [Cameron Huddleston]
financial decision for your kids when they’re little, if you don’t give them a chance to manage money on their own, then by the time they’re in college, they’re not gonna know how to do it and they will make a lot more costly mistakes. I mean, I did this when I was in college. I, um, [sighs] you know, my parents did give me an allowance, a small allowance when I was a kid. I just used it to buy things, so we really didn’t have discussions about saving and

00:27:01,431 [Cameron Huddleston]
I was not allowed to have a job when I was in high school. My father felt very strongly that I should be focusing on academics-

00:27:08,551 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:27:08,751 [Cameron Huddleston]
… and, uh, shouldn’t be working and taking away time from studying for school, and so I did not have a job where I was earning my own money until after my senior year. I was making some money babysitting, but it wasn’t, you know, any sort of part-time job with a steady paycheck. Um, and so then when I got to college, I didn’t know how to budget. My parents gave me a credit card, said, “Use it for emergency,” but, you know, i- and this, [laughs] this was in the early ’90s, okay? So there really wasn’t the internet, so I wasn’t shopping online.

00:27:38,771 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:27:38,791 [Cameron Huddleston]
We would get catalogs, and

00:27:41,831 [Cameron Huddleston]
J.Crew catalog would arrive and I’d be like, “Oh, that sweater. I think it’s an emergency. I need to buy it.”

00:27:46,551 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:27:47,431 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs] You know, so

00:27:50,911 [Cameron Huddleston]
I… Because I didn’t have that experience, I did make mistakes, and I don’t want my kids to be making those sort of mistakes when those mistakes are a lot more costly than, you know, $9 for two little dinky, you know, toys that- [laughs]

00:28:10,751 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:28:10,831 [Cameron Huddleston]
… that might break or not be used again.

00:28:14,091 [John Lanza]
Well, yeah, I’m, I’m a fellow Gen Xer, so we grew up when it was, you know, no holds barred s- for the, uh, credit card companies. They could offer you-

00:28:23,511 [Cameron Huddleston]
Mm-hmm

00:28:23,771 [John Lanza]
… they would offer you whatever, you know, and it was… I- is if you’re at college and they’re offering you a credit card, you’re like, “I can get a credit card and I can get a prize? I can get a shirt or whatever the heck they were giving out?” It’s a no-brainer when you don’t know what the heck this means, right? And then you start-

00:28:41,951 [Cameron Huddleston]
Oh, exactly

00:28:42,131 [John Lanza]
… charging, you know, and then, and you… The only way you were going to learn was through experience, and th- I, and I give my parents a pass on this because

00:28:53,431 [John Lanza]
they didn’t grow up with the same kind of credit card practices, right? So the… It wasn’t something that they really realized had to be taught early, and for us as parents, we now realize for a number of reasons, you know, that number one, that credit cards and debit cards are… Or credit cards are out there, and the other thing we now know is that we have people… Because the structure of work has changed so much and people really have to be… They have to kind of really own their future, um, planning, financial planning. It’s not something that’s gonna be taken care of, in a large part, uh, by work through pensions or, or what have you, um… And so that being the case, we now know as parents, we have a b- much better sense that this is… It, it is our responsibility and it’s our responsibility to start earlier, which is good, you know? It’s, it’s something that more and more parents, um, are getting comfortable with, but there’s still a lot of parents that, that, you know, that don’t know. That’s why I like to have these conversations, ’cause they don’t really know how to start and they don’t really know how to set up a, a proper allowance that’s gonna work most effectively, because everybody knows what allowance is in the abstract, right? But people do different things. So I, I actually wanted to, to talk to you about allowance, and we had talked about this before, but so we have, we have al- some similarity and then some difference in the way that our systems are set up, and so with regard to chores, this is, this is interesting ’cause s- so we have your basic chores. So, so the way you structured your allowance was that they get a certain amount and then it’s… So it’s X amount and then it’s subtracted by the chores that they didn’t do, right? On the-

00:30:32,511 [Cameron Huddleston]
Yes

00:30:32,791 [John Lanza]
… per- okay.

00:30:33,371 [Cameron Huddleston]
Yes.

00:30:34,471 [John Lanza]
And so… And you made the comment that, I think in particular, your husband wanted to be sure that they understood that there’s… That work is required in order to make money, right? And, and I-

00:30:47,551 [Cameron Huddleston]
Yes

00:30:47,651 [John Lanza]
… think… Yeah, so I wanted to just give a- a- another perspective on, on this as…… and, and then we could w- discuss it. So we have… So allowance, its purpose… A lot of times the problem with allowance is people don’t under- there’s, there, there can be a purpose to it as long as it is done intentionally, right? And the, and the purpose is to give your kids experience using money in the real world, right? That is the real purpose of allowance. And you do have to be explicit about with- about that with them. And that it, you don’t have to sit there and lecture them ’cause we’ve already talked about the, the, uh, the rolling eyes at lecture time, but you do wanna say, “Here’s the purpose of this allowance. It is to help you get comfortable with money. We’re gonna be your guides.” And you can do that each time you’re handing out the allowance or whenever it seems like it makes sense.

00:31:34,788 [John Lanza]
But it is important to be intentional about that so that they understand that you are watching over them and that there is a purpose to it. And then the idea with chores is… And I, and I understand why parents like to tie chores to allowance, but chores teach a different lesson. That is, you do have to work in order to make money, but they’re, they’re two different things, right? So there’s chores teach that you have to work most of the time in order to make money, and allowance is a, is a tool to help teach kids, um, to get comfortable with money, to learn to become money smart, and hopefully eventually to become kind of money empowered. So I wanted to… And, and one of the, the other things that we, that, that… The other advantage, not the reason to break up the two, chores and allowance, but the other advantage is that you don’t have as much friction because the kids don’t like to do their chores. So we’re not, you know, so the- so what we are- they are battling us with chores. That’s just natural with kids, like, “Ugh, I don’t wanna do it.” Uh, so I wanted to ask you though, because I, I think your system is interesting, is

00:32:39,407 [John Lanza]
do you find that that, that the friction tide that… Not the friction. Do you find that s- that you get into conflict with the chores not being done and then the money being deducted, do you think that that is… Do you think it would be less problematic if you weren’t deducting the money or do you think it’s worth it enough that they, that they have to work in order to earn their money, that it’s, it’s, it’s worth that, that trade-off?

00:33:13,787 [Cameron Huddleston]
I think it’s worth it, but I also feel fortunate because there hasn’t been friction. My kids have not pushed back. Uh, eh, my son, who is very much motivated by money, this has actually gotten him to be a lot more responsible-

00:33:31,347 [John Lanza]
Hmm

00:33:31,507 [Cameron Huddleston]
… around the house. You know, he, he was helping out, he was doing things, but now because he knows that he will lose money if he doesn’t do those things, there’s actually less arguing.

00:33:43,587 [Cameron Huddleston]
Because in the past when I would tell him to clean up his room, “Uh, I can’t do it. Can you just please help me? It’s so hard.” [laughs]

00:33:52,607 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:33:53,067 [Cameron Huddleston]
Now, he knows that if he doesn’t clean up that room Sunday night, he’s going to lose money. And so he does it now without even me having to ask. He puts up his shoes without me having to ask, or if there’s- if I notice that they’re sitting out, I’ll just say, “Oh, Alexander, I see your shoes here.” “Okay, okay, okay. I’ll put them up right now. Have I lost any money yet?” [laughs]

00:34:16,187 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:34:17,467 [Cameron Huddleston]
Um,

00:34:18,887 [Cameron Huddleston]
and, and, my daughters haven’t pushed back. My oldest daughter in particular has been super helpful lately, especially since we have been all stuck at home.

00:34:29,947 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:34:30,807 [Cameron Huddleston]
And as- she’s been very willing to help out and do things without, you know, even having, you know, without even accepting extra money for going above and beyond what she’s required to do. She’s like, “Oh, it’s okay. It’s fine. I’ll just do it. I’m happy to help.” Which is wonderful. I’m so glad that she’s willing to pitch in. My middle child,

00:34:52,347 [Cameron Huddleston]
not as much. Not, you know, I’m like, “Come on. I need your help right now.”

00:34:56,047 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:34:56,347 [Cameron Huddleston]
And I’m having to, you know, kind of enforce things more. I don’t, I don’t get too much pushback, but I certainly get some grumbling and, “Uh, okay, whatever. Fine, I’ll do it.” [laughs]

00:35:07,087 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:35:07,827 [Cameron Huddleston]
Uh-

00:35:08,287 [John Lanza]
And right on cue, they’re making their presence known. [laughs]

00:35:10,907 [Cameron Huddleston]
I know it. [laughs]

00:35:13,667 [Cameron Huddleston]
Did hear them running in the background. Sorry about that.

00:35:16,887 [John Lanza]
It’s all right.

00:35:18,207 [Cameron Huddleston]
But-

00:35:18,227 [John Lanza]
It’s texture. Texture, Tamarak. Right. [laughs]

00:35:21,207 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs] You know, uh, but so far, I feel like the system has worked well for us. We haven’t gotten pushback. Honestly, the most pushback has come from my husband-

00:35:35,027 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:35:35,127 [Cameron Huddleston]
… because he doesn’t think the dish system is working as well as he would like. Uh, [laughs] uh, but, you know, I’m like, “No, no, no, no. We’re sticking with this. It’s okay.” Uh, but, you know, r- yeah. He’s the only one who’s complained some about it ’cause he’s not entirely-

00:35:53,007 [John Lanza]
Did you-

00:35:53,247 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:35:53,247 [John Lanza]
… did you say the dish system?

00:35:55,287 [Cameron Huddleston]
The dish- [laughs]

00:35:56,327 [John Lanza]
I’ll say, I have a feeling, I have a feeling that your husband and I would be simpatico on… He’s probably someone who says there is a perfect way to load the dishwasher. Can’t we do it that way? Is it… Am I getting that right? [laughs]

00:36:09,867 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs] Sort of. I’m actually a little bit pickier about loading it.

00:36:14,147 [John Lanza]
Oh, okay.

00:36:14,187 [Cameron Huddleston]
So what happens is that i- you know, the kids are supposed to put their dishes in the dishwasher, and if it is full, they can put it in the sink, and they also have to help unload to the extent that they can. I mean, my son can’t, you know, put the glasses up into the high shelf because he can’t reach up, but he’ll put utensils up for me and he’ll do it without complaining.

00:36:38,207 [Cameron Huddleston]
What happen… He doesn’t always like though the way they put some stuff up and then it involves me or him going back and rearranging things. But you know what? That’s okay. I can handle that. For the most part, it has reduced the amount of dishes that I’ve had to stick in the dishwasher.

00:36:53,507 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:36:54,107 [Cameron Huddleston]
And if I’m getting them in the habit of doing it, I feel like that’s a win.

00:36:59,667 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:37:00,724 [Cameron Huddleston]
… so.

00:37:01,603 [John Lanza]
Okay, that’s, it’s interesting ’cause, uh, well, just tell your husband that he can feel comfortable that, um, a lot… Our dish system needs a little work as well.

00:37:10,984 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:37:11,404 [John Lanza]
‘Cause that is, that is the inherent problem, like the dish- dishwasher has to be unloaded in order for the dishes to get out of the sink, into the dishwasher. It’s not a bad system now, but it is definitely, um… It, it leaves something to be desired. Like, there’s definitely an efficient… [laughs] There’s a, there’s a more efficient system that we should be able to develop, but it’s just not… We haven’t come up with it yet.

00:37:32,684 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs] Or maybe just, like, not even use dishes at all. I don’t know, like, a trough or something from the kids’ room.

00:37:39,304 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Well, no, that’s-

00:37:40,804 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:37:41,203 [John Lanza]
See, that, that, that, that, that is one of the points that we try to make now that we’re all… ‘Cause we, we are recording this in the, in the midst of our COVID-19 epidemic, and

00:37:52,183 [John Lanza]
one of the things that we, we tried to say about… My wife actually put a picture, w- uh, put a, uh, put a note right above the sink to say that you, uh, that you have to use… It’s one glass, just use one glass all day [laughs]. So that’s kinda helped [laughs], but yeah.

00:38:10,763 [Cameron Huddleston]
Yeah. Do what you can to limit those dishes.

00:38:13,003 [John Lanza]
Do what you can, yes.

00:38:13,443 [Cameron Huddleston]
Um, you know, but I would add that,

00:38:16,603 [Cameron Huddleston]
you know, our system works for us or has been working for us. That doesn’t mean that what we’re doing is what every family should be doing. It doesn’t mean that you should necessarily t- tie your allowance to chores. I think it’s important to figure out what works for you. I know some people pre- prefer to tie an allowance to financial chores.

00:38:37,703 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:38:38,063 [Cameron Huddleston]
The kids get a certain amount, and then they have to use what they have to basically cover everything.

00:38:45,403 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:38:45,483 [Cameron Huddleston]
It might be, you know, their athletic fees, all of their clothing, all of their extracurricular activities. And you know that amount that they get increases with age, and the financial responsibilities they have to cover. That works well for some people. You know, I floated that idea by my husband, but he just really was, you know, emphatic that we tie the chores to, to allowance, and I’m okay with that.

00:39:14,043 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:39:14,063 [Cameron Huddleston]
And like I said, it seems to be working for us.

00:39:17,363 [John Lanza]
Yeah, that’s… Well, you know, anybody, any listeners that have heard other episodes know that, you know, our, our approach is that, is that idea that our kids now get a larger allowance, and they’re, that has to cover things like communication, so the phone, covers the clothing, covers, um, gifts that they’re getting for their kids and food. So food when they’re out or-

00:39:39,783 [Cameron Huddleston]
Mm-hmm

00:39:39,823 [John Lanza]
… if they wanna buy food at school. And what I love about this, doing this podcast is to get these different thoughts on how to do it because, you know, as you know [laughs], as someone who’s been in this, this, you know, the financial world for a long time is everybody’s different. Every kid is different, every family’s different, and we wanna provide people with different ways of looking at these different problems, and they can, they can kinda pick and choose. And say, “Oh, you know, that’s gonna really work very well.” Because, you know, what works for your se- or your son didn’t necessarily work for your 13-year-old, which didn’t necessarily work for your 15-year-old. And for those three kids, that may not work for another set of parents. So what’s nice is a parent can listen to this, hear what you have to say, hear what we have to say or have I have to say, and then craft a program that works for them. But, you know, maintaining the key elements, you know, one, being open to the conversation, you know, making sure that we’re trying to teach them about saving their money, about sharing their money, all those kind of things. And that thread is something we all agree on, which is fantastic.

00:40:46,843 [Cameron Huddleston]
Right. You know, and it, it saddened me recently because I was talking to a friend of mine who is a financial coach, and she said she had a client who did not discuss money at all with her children because she thought it would be too stressful for them and she wanted them to just be kids.

00:41:06,063 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:41:06,943 [Cameron Huddleston]
And, you know, I… And the reason I say it saddens me is because

00:41:12,843 [Cameron Huddleston]
she thinks that having a conversation with money, about money with her kids is inherently stressful.

00:41:20,683 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:41:20,963 [Cameron Huddleston]
A- and, and I don’t think that has to be the case at all. You don’t need to talk about your financial struggles with your kids by any means, but there’s no harm. In fact, you should be at least explaining the basics of money, telling your kids what, you know, how people get money, how it’s used. And it can be as simple as when you’re at the grocery store just having a conversation with your kids. “Hey, we just bought groceries. We paid this much. I paid for it with cash,” or, “I paid for it with my debit card, but that doesn’t mean that the groceries are free. The money still comes out of my bank account.” Or, “I paid for it with a credit card, and I’m gonna have to pay that money back.” Explaining to them the basics, I don’t think that there’s anything stressful about that, and it empowers your kids, and it’s gonna help them when they become adults be financially responsible.

00:42:13,443 [John Lanza]
Yeah, I agree, and I think the other thing is that if you are… The- then what you’re doing automatically is closing down a conversation, which is gonna be stressful for the kid because the kid is going to have questions. That, they start early. And if you close down that conversation, then, then you’re creating this, this whole kind of mythology around money. Th- they’re gonna learn, but they’re gonna learn not from you, and we don’t know where, what they’re gonna learn. Could be good or bad. So I think, uh, opening up this conversation is, is so important. And, and I’ve, I really, it’s really surprising. Th- this was a client of your coach, right? It wasn’t someone who was in finance?

00:42:52,103 [Cameron Huddleston]
Right, right.

00:42:52,683 [John Lanza]
Okay, okay.

00:42:52,703 [Cameron Huddleston]
It was, yeah-

00:42:53,403 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:42:53,423 [Cameron Huddleston]
… one of my friend’s clients, yes.

00:42:55,063 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah, that’s a tough one ’cause, uh, you, you kind of [laughs]… I’m sure she must have thought, you know, just wanted to [laughs] say to the client, “You’ve gotta change your mind on this ’cause you’re creating stress by not, uh, having that conversation.”

00:43:10,263 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:43:11,251 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Well, I’m glad we’re having this conversation, and I’m, I’m also mindful of your time. So, I wanna get into our fast and fun round of questions here, Cameron, but only if you’re ready. [laughs]

00:43:21,592 [Cameron Huddleston]
Okay, okay, I think so. [laughs]

00:43:23,151 [John Lanza]
Okay. Here we go. The first one is, uh, what does the term money empowered mean to you?

00:43:32,411 [Cameron Huddleston]
It means

00:43:34,691 [Cameron Huddleston]
having a good understanding of money and finance and knowing that,

00:43:40,231 [Cameron Huddleston]
you know, your money is certainly important. Life doesn’t revolve entirely around money, but certainly, having money can help make life better and, you know, my goal is for my kids to feel money empowered, to have a good understanding of how to be smart with their money.

00:44:02,172 [John Lanza]
All makes sense. What is the best investment of time or money you’ve ever spent on your kids?

00:44:10,811 [Cameron Huddleston]
You know, I think the best investment of time is, with my kids, has actually been talking to them about money, having these conversations because I am teaching them to be money empowered, which we just discussed. [laughs] You know, i- it’s, it’s not like it’s, you know,

00:44:32,751 [Cameron Huddleston]
it’s… I don’t feel like I’m giving up my time by devoting time to help my kids understand money better and understanding how to use it responsibly. I think, as a parent, it is my responsibility to teach kids these things, and so I don’t think of it as a burden at all. Yeah, and, and I, I feel like they certainly know that they’re benefiting from these conversations. I have a… My middle child actually said to me once, couple of years ago, just out of the blue, she came up to me and she’s like, “Mom, why do people think it’s bad to talk about money?”

00:45:08,431 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:45:09,171 [Cameron Huddleston]
Because, because in our house, we talk about it all the time and I, I’m so glad that I have spent time talking to my kids about money.

00:45:21,471 [John Lanza]
That all makes sense. Thank you, Cameron. Okay, next question. What advice to your kids do you most hope that they will heed? It could be financial or it could be other advice.

00:45:33,771 [Cameron Huddleston]
Okay. So, I want my kids to

00:45:38,711 [Cameron Huddleston]
be grateful for what they have, and I tell them this all the time. I tell them, “You, you’re never gonna have everything that everyone else has, but you have a lot already. And if you spend your life always wanting more, you’re never gonna be satisfied.”

00:45:59,471 [John Lanza]
Yeah. It gets back to that keep up with the Joneses we talked about. It’s just an unwinnable game. [laughs]

00:46:05,071 [Cameron Huddleston]
Yes.

00:46:05,151 [John Lanza]
You know? Doesn’t matter how high you go up in the income ladder, it, you just, you have to be happy with what you’ve got. So, that’s a great message.

00:46:15,291 [John Lanza]
Okay, if you could transmit a message that everyone would see, so sky-written on a billboard, wherever that message could be, what would that message say?

00:46:29,671 [Cameron Huddleston]
Uh,

00:46:30,991 [Cameron Huddleston]
does it need to be money related or anything?

00:46:33,291 [John Lanza]
Nope. Can be anything.

00:46:34,131 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:46:37,291 [Cameron Huddleston]
Oh, I think, uh,

00:46:40,071 [Cameron Huddleston]
I don’t know. At, uh, I, uh, it’s hard to narrow it down to one message, but I think a really important message that we need to be sharing right now is be nice. Just be nice to people. [laughs]

00:46:53,891 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:46:54,711 [Cameron Huddleston]
We, I, what I love about this current

00:46:59,731 [Cameron Huddleston]
pandemic situation that we’re in is seeing this outpouring of care on social media, people trying to do things to lift each other’s spirits, and I wanna see that continue. And I just, you know, and I tell my kids all the time, “Be nice to people. You know, maybe someone’s not treating you the way you want them to, but be nice to them. Be the nice kid.”

00:47:24,431 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:47:26,491 [John Lanza]
That is great advice.

00:47:29,311 [John Lanza]
So, what is the one parenting and/or money smarts book, and we won’t limit you ’cause books are great, so, uh, that you go back to or that you gift the most often?

00:47:42,931 [Cameron Huddleston]
So, I feel fortunate that I, uh,

00:47:48,831 [Cameron Huddleston]
I haven’t had to rely on a lot of

00:47:53,371 [Cameron Huddleston]
money books because I have been writing about personal finance-

00:47:58,111 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:47:58,471 [Cameron Huddleston]
… for so long and I get to interview all sorts of experts. And so, I’ve just learned so much over the years through my interviews and because of my job, and I can apply that knowledge to my life and share it with my kids.

00:48:13,791 [Cameron Huddleston]
Uh, a- and I know this is gonna sound a little bit self-serving when I say this, but [laughs] one of the books I have been gifting and giving away a lot lately is my own book, which is Mom and Dad, We Need To Talk!: How to Have Essential Conversations With Your Parents About Their Finances.

00:48:33,271 [Cameron Huddleston]
This is a money conversation that most people don’t have and they don’t realize they need to have, and I really, really want people to understand how important it is to be talking to your parents as they age, and ideally before they are old or older-

00:48:51,991 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:48:52,511 [Cameron Huddleston]
… so that you can get important information about their finances in case you ever have to step in and help them out as they get older. It’s such an important conversation to have. And so, yes, I have been handing out copies of my book [laughs] to encourage people to have these conversations.

00:49:10,391 [John Lanza]
Well, Cameron, I, uh, y- you set me up for my next question ’cause we were finished with our fast and r- and fun round, and I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about that book ’cause I appreciate you coming on…… this podcast to talk about kids and money knowing that your focus right now is on you as a kid talking to your parents about, you know, their money or, or their estate, or whatever that might be. And I, you know, I’m gonna take this opportunity ’cause I couldn’t really wor- I wanted to ask you a question, um, and I couldn’t really work it in, in any other meth- method, probably just my own, uh, inability as an interviewer to-

00:49:47,536 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:49:47,896 [John Lanza]
… to, to work in this question in, other than a ham-handed way. So now I’m gonna do the ham-handed way ’cause I wanted to ask you this, ’cause you had written… So we talked a little bit about this before, but when you have… So

00:50:01,376 [John Lanza]
I’ve written about and talked a lo- about, a lot about stuff, you know, this collecting s- junk. And I- I’ve, I’ve kind of, I’ve minimalized or minimized, uh, in my life, but it is one of the things that I’m worried about because my dad and I, I hope he’s listening, he probably is, my dad is a stuff guy. Now, it’s an incredibly well organized set of stuff, but he is a stuff guy. So he’s always kind of, you know, ribbing me with my desire to, you know, cut down my wardrobe and, you know, all that. And I’m curious to know if you have any advice. So this is, this is now advice for me as the kid [laughs] to dealing with, with my dad which is, you know, I’m, I’m fortunate that he’s still around, but he knows that, uh, you know, when the time comes, w- he’s like, “What are we, what are you guys gonna do with my stuff?” And, like, how do you… Is, uh, do you have any kind of just quick advice to a kid [laughs] about how, how we should d- deal with that, how we should have that conversation with our parents?

00:51:05,255 [Cameron Huddleston]
I do have advice for you.

00:51:07,095 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:51:07,275 [Cameron Huddleston]
So you have to realize that even though you don’t wanna have a lot of stuff in your life, that the stuff that your dad has, a lot of it probably

00:51:21,235 [Cameron Huddleston]
holds value for him. And I think it’s important for you to get your dad to identify those things he values most.

00:51:31,855 [John Lanza]
Mm.

00:51:32,175 [Cameron Huddleston]
So you can say, you know, you know, “Dad, you know I don’t like a lot of stuff, but I realize you probably have some things that are really important to you. I’d love it if you can share with me or make a list of the things that you value most that you would love to be passed on, maybe even if there’s a story about those things that you can share with me, share with your grandkids.”

00:51:59,195 [Cameron Huddleston]
And that’s gonna help him perhaps pare down what he has, if he can identify those things that are the most important to him, things that he wants to pass on. You know, it may be encouraging to him to go through some of his stuff and get rid of the things that aren’t so important-

00:52:15,255 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:52:15,555 [Cameron Huddleston]
… now [laughs]-

00:52:16,835 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:52:17,135 [Cameron Huddleston]
… while he’s still here. Um, but at least letting him know that you understand that, and, and that you care about his things. And maybe you do keep them, maybe you don’t, but it’s gonna make him feel better-

00:52:34,075 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:52:34,295 [Cameron Huddleston]
… at least knowing or at least thinking [laughs] that, that some of these things that are important to him are gonna stay in the family. Um, you know, and, and I will tell you this, as someone who has lost a parent and, you know, my other parent has Alzheimer’s, and, you know, and I’ve had to go through all of her stuff too. A lot of times you, you look at your parents’ stuff and you think, “Oh, I, I don’t want any of that stuff. I don’t need it to clutter up my house.” But then after they’re gone, you might change your mind. And you might think, “You know, I really, I really wish I had hung on to a few things.” Uh, y- and, you know, even if you’re not a super sentimental person, which I am not, I am certainly glad that I have some things that were my father’s. I have the desk that was in his office, and I sit at it every day when I write. So glad I have it. Uh, you know, my mother had some very beautiful things that belonged to her mother and her family members before that. So it’s, I feel like it’s nice that I have these things. You know, my kids can decide at some point if they wanna keep them. If they don’t, it’s their choice. But I am glad that I have some of these things that belong to my parents. And so maybe now you’re thinking, “Oh, I don’t want any of that stuff,” but after your parents are no longer with you, you might regret that you don’t have anything. So certainly talk to your parents, find out what they value most and why they value those things, and consider hanging on to those items once your parents are no longer with you.

00:54:08,535 [John Lanza]
Good. Okay, Dad, then, uh, if you’re listening, you’re gonna start making-

00:54:11,795 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:54:11,995 [John Lanza]
… this priority list. I think that’s a, that’s a great piece of advice. And he’s very good at making lists, so we’re gonna… He, he may have already started the priority list, but I think that will be very helpful because, uh, there is a lot of stuff and I, I can totally see that, uh, the pers- my perspective might change, um, when he’s not around. So thank you for that, Cameron.

00:54:34,155 [Cameron Huddleston]
You are welcome.

00:54:35,275 [John Lanza]
So to that end, so how could people find you on social media, the web? Where should they go?

00:54:41,735 [Cameron Huddleston]
So one of the easiest places to find me is at cameronhuddleston.com. It is my website, and there’s information about me. I have blog posts. I have some free resources. There are links to buy my book on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, the other places that sell it, links to my social media accounts. Uh, sign up for a newsletter if you feel like that.

00:55:07,795 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:55:08,455 [Cameron Huddleston]
So that’s really the best place to go [laughs]-

00:55:09,875 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:55:09,875 [Cameron Huddleston]
… and get some information if you want it.

00:55:12,095 [John Lanza]
Cool. Is there any action, I mean, other than the obvious, signing up for the newsletter, um, getting the book, action that you’d like other people to take that would be helpful for you?

00:55:23,116 [Cameron Huddleston]
Well, I just really want people to start feeling more comfortable about talking about money. It’s… Stop thinking, thinking of it as a taboo topic. And really, if you have kids, you know, like we discussed, it’s so important to get them feeling comfortable talking about it with you so they come to you for information rather than getting it from who knows where.

00:55:46,275 [John Lanza]
Yep. That’s s- so important because they’re gonna get the information. [laughs]

00:55:50,155 [Cameron Huddleston]
Mm-hmm.

00:55:51,095 [John Lanza]
It might as well be coming from you, and you can help curate that at least up to a point. And that’s that. It’s a great piece of advice. And Cameron, this was great. I really, I enjoy your sharing your information about, you know, the process that you and your husband have gone through with your kids. I really appreciate you sharing a little bit of perspective on stuff. [laughs] And our family, uh, it’s nice to be the kid in this podcast.

00:56:15,675 [Cameron Huddleston]
[laughs]

00:56:16,395 [John Lanza]
So thank you again, and thanks for, uh, for sharing all this great knowledge.

00:56:21,535 [Cameron Huddleston]
Thank you.

00:56:22,155 [John Lanza]
That was another very interesting conversation.

00:56:33,055 [John Lanza]
I found it, um… [clears throat]

00:56:39,235 [John Lanza]
And another good conversation. It was interesting that she allows her spend, spendthrift son so much control. I think that’s great because he’s gonna learn his lessons through experience, and how else do we learn them? You know, making mistakes. This is very much in line with what David Owen said in a recent podcast. You know, you wanna err on the side of giving them more control, and it sounds like that’s something that she’s done. And it’s interesting that’s another financial writer that is bringing up or using that same technique.

00:57:17,735 [John Lanza]
It’s also not surprising that for the daughter that was more of a saver once she got that debit card, the digital money, that, that reduced the spending friction. There’s definitely a case that could be made for not moving to digital allowance and sticking with cash because we do know that studies have shown us that people are much more loath to hand over their cash than they are to use digital money. Part of that is also just that on the digital side of things, the storefronts are designed to, to reduce friction on your end. So that is, uh, certainly something that parents can do is stick with the cash. But there’s also the other side, which we do with our kids, which is they do have to get used to using digital money. And it’s a lot easier to do the allowance once you move into the digital realm because it’s automated. So that, that ease of use is, um, and keeping it consistent is definitely a plus. So, you know, you’ve got different sides to consider, but they are both different types of options that you can use. You might even do some kind of mix with your kids.

00:58:25,435 [John Lanza]
It is interesting, of course, and we need to talk about the chores and allowance debate that we had, a good-natured debate.

00:58:33,455 [John Lanza]
They do dock their kids for chores not done, and that’s one of the arguments that I make about not, uh, tying chores to allowance. And part of that is just there’s, there’s a certain negativity that’s associated with doing that. In other words, if it’s punitive, “You didn’t do your chores. You’re not gonna get your money,”

00:58:53,495 [John Lanza]
I do wonder if that’s counteracted in this case by the open discussion that they have because they have an economist at home and a personal finance journalist. So that from the get-go, they’ve been prepared for this conversation. They are open to conversation. It sounds like they have, in general, pretty positive conversations, and they are going to have the knowledge to have very in-depth conversations with their kids. So they’re really prepared for that. And I, it, it gets at a point that I’ve been thinking about a lot, which is I, I think the open conversation is really incred- I’m, incredibly important. I may have even mentioned that on a previous podcast where someone was talking about the fact that they wanted to tie chores to allowance. That conversation, one of the huge benefits of setting up an allowance is that it opens up a, hopefully, lifelong dialogue with your kids about money that you aren’t gonna have without some physical money with which they can practice. So in any case, it just gives you a different perspective, which is one of the goals of this podcast, is to give you, as a parent, you know, additional tools and tips and techniques and strategies and ideas that you can use and see what’s gonna work best for your family.

01:00:18,175 [John Lanza]
I think that’s a wrap. [instrumental music]

01:00:23,075 [John Lanza]
I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Art of Allowance podcast. Please subscribe to our show on whatever platform you listen to to help me have more conversations like this with experts and parents, and sometimes both, who are interested in helping you raise your own money-smart child. You can find out more about our movement at themoneymammals.com. The Money Mammals is our program to get kids excited about money smarts when they’re young. And with our Saving Money is Fun kids club, we also partner with financial institutions that want to stand out in the communities that they serve by connecting with families, both kids and parents. And while you’re on our site, you can also get a copy of the book that gave rise to this podcast, The Art of Allowance, along with some great free financial resources. Of course, please consult with a financial or investment professional before engaging in any decisions that might affect your own financial well-being. And until next time, I wish you and your family well on your own money-smart journey. Thanks for listening. [instrumental music]