AOA 057: Money Smarts in the Metaverse – Featuring Brett Wooden

Posted on by

“Financial education is the best entry point [into the metaverse] because you already have a huge generation that’s in it.”

— Brett Wooden

Just what is the metaverse? And how can parents and financial institutions take advantage of it?

Brett Wooden joins The Art of Allowance Podcast to answer these all-important questions from the digital realm. Brett is currently the SVP of Innovation at FTSI and was previously the Chief Operations Officer at a credit union in the northwest. He was named the Northwest Credit Union Association’s Young Credit Union Professional of the Year in 2011, Credit Union Times’ 40 and Under Trailblazer and Credit Union Magazine’s 2020 Rock Star. Brett thrives on helping others embrace and utilize new business strategies in today’s changing world.

The driving force behind his organization’s app development, advancement, digital and market penetration, Brett brings concepts to life by building and advancing software solutions. And while serving in multiple leadership roles at credit unions across the US, he has set a national trend for using mobile applications and digital technology to advance financial institutions.

Links (From the Show)

Show Notes (Find what’s most interesting to you!)

  • A bit about Brett [1:55]
  • What the metaverse means to us today [3:39]
  • What should we be excited about in terms of the metaverse? [6:29]
  • The “future shock” happening right now [9:02]
  • Promise and peril: adapting and coping in terms of metaverse finances [11:16]
  • How financial institutions can leverage the metaverse [16:34]
  • Financial education for kids in the metaverse [23:29]
  • No matter how you feel about “influencers,” they are a powerful force. [25:25]
  • Should we be worried about TikTok? [27:49]
  • “Living in life events”: credit unions’ biggest opportunities [31:08]
  • How Brett embraces tech to teach his kids about money [33:35]
  • The relationship between money empowerment and decision-making [38:25]
  • Vacations as investments [38:54]
  • The importance of life experiences [39:21]
  • Taking it a day at a time [40:05]
  • Brett’s favorite book [40:54]
  • Getting social with Brett [41:53]
  • A Seattle Seahawks digression [42:36]
  • A final thought: starting a financial education conversation [44:04]

Click here for the full transcript.

If you liked this episode …

Curious about the reality fairs that Brett and I mention? During her appearance on The Art of Allowance Podcast, Cornerstone Credit Union Foundation Executive Director Courtney Moran explains what these events are and why your kids should participate in them. Listen in at 27:49 for all the details.

Want to know more about the relationship among kids, tech, and money? In his podcast episode, child psychology researcher Chuck Kalish argues that videogames teach financial literacy better than books. Tune in a 1:13:24 for his reasoning.

Please Subscribe

If you like this podcast, then please give us a review and subscribe to the show. The Art of Allowance Podcast is available on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Radio Public and now Amazon Music. Subscribing is free, and it will help me produce more enriching content for you to enjoy. Thanks!

You might also want to check out The Art of Allowance Project, our reimagined program to get your children excited about money smarts at any age. Until next time, I wish you and your family well as you journey forth.

Thanks for listening!

John

Full Transcript

This transcript is from The Art of Allowance Podcast, Episode 57, featuring host John Lanza and guest Brett Wooden.

00:00:00,300 [John Lanza]
Hello. I’m your host, John Lanza, and welcome to episode 57 of The Art of Allowance Podcast.

00:00:08,840 [Brett Wooden]
The one area I do think we can impact as financial institutions in the metaverse right now is financial education for kids. I would say like 60 to 70% of their time, there’s tons of articles about Roblox, Minecraft, all these games these kids are into. Sim- like in Roblox, you- you can go to Bloxburg, build houses, get a job, and when you walk out of your job, it just pops up with a blank and says you made 300 bucks. But if we built in there like a credit union where they can learn to be a teller, they can deposit their check after, they can see, like … ’cause they’re having to pay bills in the game.

00:00:45,960 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:00:46,080 [Brett Wooden]
Why not have some form of education in that game? Go where the kids are at.

00:00:50,980 [John Lanza]
[upbeat music] Today I am talking with Brett Wooden. Brett is the SVP of innovation at FTSI. Previously, he was a Chief Operations Officer at a northwest credit union, and Brett was named the Northwest Credit Union Association’s Young Credit Union Professional of the Year in 2011, Credit Union Times‘ 40 and Under Trailblazer, and Credit Union Magazine‘s 2020 Rockstar, my first rockstar on the podcast. Brett has set a national trend for using mobile applications and digital technology to advance financial institutions. He’s also a friend and, like me, has two daughters who he is raising to be money smart. I think you’re going to enjoy my tech trek into the metaverse with Brett Wooden.

00:01:46,290 [John Lanza]
[upbeat music] Today I am talking with Brett Wooden. Welcome, Brett.

00:01:53,080 [Brett Wooden]
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

00:01:55,800 [John Lanza]
So Brett, you know, I know a fair amount about you, but I want our audience to get a good sense of who Brett Wooden is. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you’ve been up to recently?

00:02:07,380 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah. So I’m Brett Wooden. I’m the SVP of Innovation at FTSI,

00:02:12,680 [Brett Wooden]
and lately really just been into app development, so immersing some of our credit union clients and bank clients within app development, developing certain specific softwares, and just, you know, really educating on the design thinking process, what- what it is to build an app and why, why is the importance. And it’s exciting times right now because there is a lot of challenges happening in the financial space, and so looking at different ways to draw in additional income, gain, you know, new member experiences. So really that’s what I’ve been up to is just kinda education, app development, and then occasionally just a few LEGO builds personally. So …

00:02:53,500 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Yeah, Brett is a big LEGO builder, and an impressive LEGO builder. And I’m excited about this because we have kind of worked together on an app project and that’s where I realized how much you know about this space and how committed to it you are. And I love that you’re talking about that why, ’cause we always talk about the why here when we’re talking about …

00:03:15,020 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:03:15,030 [John Lanza]
… allowance and money-smart kids. But you very much focus on the why of anything that you’re producing. And so this is gonna be … I have to just give this disclaimer. We’re gonna start in a different place than I normally do in The Art of Allowance Podcast. Although for a kid whose favorite movies were Blade Runner and Star Wars, jumping into the realm …

00:03:32,700 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:03:32,910 [John Lanza]
… of tech and the metaverse is very comfortable and exciting for me. So let’s jump in right here. The term “metaverse” was first coined by the sci-fi writer Neal Stephenson in his book Snow Crash. I believe that was 1992. But what does the metaverse mean to us now? So this is why I brought Brett on, to talk a little bit about this and what it means to us and how it can, might- might affect our kids and- and money. We’re gonna even gonna get to that. But a, this recent Wired article I saw gave us a few scenarios. So is the metaverse, metaverse like user-generated games in Roblox? Is the metaverse virtual real estate in Decentraland? Or is it just like Facebook 3.0? Isn’t this just another term for cyberspace? Anyway, very confusing. Can you define, Brett, what the metaverse means to us today?

00:04:26,540 [Brett Wooden]
I would say today, you know, it’s- it’s interesting. I’ve read multiple books very similar to, you know, you, articles about it, and I would say my depiction of the metaverse is kind of we’re moving into web three. And so web two is really where, you know, you- you have like your Insta, where we’re pushing the content, but still someone owns that content. Where I feel like web three, the metaverse, we’re living in it now. So you look at, with the pandemic, Teams is a form of the metaverse. We’re changing our backgrounds, using web filters. And you look at starting to live in an environment where we’re not face to face, so utilizing virtual reality. You even look at, you mentioned, games like Roblox, where kids now are doing play dates where they’re playing a game and then they’re on FaceTime or on Zoom talking with each other while they’re playing the game. You also look at the tech companies are really pushing out on Netflix and Apple, their Apple TV, they’re pushing out where you can do joint watching of movies, where you’re v- on video while you’re watching your favorite TV show or movie, and you’re not having to be in the same room. And so really it’s- it’s kind of a virtual meetup space. A lot of people when they think of the metaverse, they think of, like, oh, Oculus or, you know, some form of VR set where you’re immersing yourself. That is a form of the metaverse, but I think we’re gradually moving into it through kind of these little interactions, like today through podcasts, you know, video casts or Teams, as well as, you know, playing games and creating avatars. Those type of things can be a form of the metaverse, and I think they’re kind of that gradual stepping stone to immersing ourselves within … the virtual reality world.

00:06:12,176 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:06:13,556 [John Lanza]
Yeah, ’cause I tend to, when I think of the metaverse, I think of that, that VR world. I think that might be what a lot of people think of. But then when I think of Web 3.0, I immediately think of, like, crypto, right?

00:06:24,366 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:06:24,396 [John Lanza]
I mean, not just crypto money, but also just smart contracts and the like. So what should we be excited about when it comes to the metaverse? Like, for, for example, like the joint watching, I think that’s interesting. I haven’t tried it. I don’t know if you’ve tried it. I’m … That doesn’t, like … I’m hoping that the metaverse is gonna be transcendent in some way, and where do you hope that the tr- that the metaverse might be transcendent? ‘Cause I think in the 3D virtual worlds we’ve all seen, well, maybe not all of us have seen or read, say, Ready Player One or something like that, where it’s full immersion and, and I’m not, not saying that that’s even, you know, remotely possible. From what I’ve read, it’s probably not the kinda thing that we’re really kind of headed towards, and if we are, it’s a long way off. But, like, kinda, I guess it’s really separating the hype from the reality, and what should we be excited about? You know, should we be skeptical of it because you have a huge company like Facebook that just rebrands themselves as Meta, or should we really be excited about it? And, and for what reason should we be excited about it?

00:07:28,256 [Brett Wooden]
I think the, you know, the first reason to be excited about it is, is the technology that will align with it, and I think we’re starting to see that, too. You’ve, you know, you’ve made the point about, you know, smart contracts, blockchain, really our digital assets. I think the thing that excites me is that right now, you know, you go on Instagram, Meta, Facebook, those companies own our stuff. So if I post information, if I post photos, they own that. But as we move into this Web3 and metaverse, we become the owner. We’ll be on blockchains.

00:07:59,666 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:07:59,676 [Brett Wooden]
There’ll be smart, you know, contracts. We’ll have NFTs with all of our digital assets. I think you look at even,

00:08:07,476 [Brett Wooden]
you know, from a kid perspective, the amount of money as a, as adults that we spend on our kids’ games, uh, so like Block, you know, Roblox, Minecraft, if those games were to go under, all of that money we spent on digital assets for our kids is gone. Where in this new environment …

00:08:24,396 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:08:24,406 [Brett Wooden]
… it’s really, you can move things and sell things in these environments. So, you know, Grand Theft Auto would be another game where if you buy a chrome Ferrari in that game,

00:08:35,156 [Brett Wooden]
and it’s only a one-time thing and it never is again, then the kids can learn to sell it in those games. And, you know, again, digital assets will just be kind of a new way in which we move to different environments. We can sell digital assets. We can own digital assets. ‘Cause right now it’s kind of like a hodgepodge world of, you know, like Instagram owns our photos, the games own ours, but we can sometimes sell ’em. You know, so that’s exciting to me. The other is artificial intelligence. I love the phase that we’re in right now …

00:09:05,736 [Brett Wooden]
… because you’ve got this future shock happening. You’ve got, you know, ChatGPT. You’ve got, you know, all these others, Google coming out with theirs, and schools and businesses have no idea what to do. Government doesn’t know what to do. So they’re all trying to get ahead of it.

00:09:21,546 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:09:21,556 [Brett Wooden]
And so the form of future shock is when you have tech moving faster than policies, procedures, government, and so you’re seeing that happen right now where my daughter’s school just sent out an email saying, “If you get ch- caught using ChatGPT, you’ll, you’ll get an automatic F and possibly, you know, expelled from school.”

00:09:39,696 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:09:39,746 [Brett Wooden]
Which is, it’s kinda crazy to me that’s their solution to that problem. But, but I think all of that is gonna incorporate in the metaverse. So you’re gonna have environments where AI, d- you know, when you interact with something in the metaverse, you’re not gonna know if that is a human or if it’s a y- you know, CPU …

00:09:58,776 [John Lanza]
Right

00:09:58,785 [Brett Wooden]
… within the gaming system, or just those worlds of assistants. And, and that to me is so exciting ’cause, you know, from a budgeting perspective, imagine, like, you know, these algorithms being put into a metaverse where you walk into a financial institution or you sit down with somebody in the virtual world and you type in, “Please look at all of my financial data, what I buy, when I buy it,” and then it spits you back in eight seconds, you know, essentially telling you, “You’re way out of your budget. Here’s what you need to start doing. Here are all the things that you’re buying that you shouldn’t be buying.” You know, and it … and that, that, that can happen, and that’s what I think is so cool …

00:10:40,286 [John Lanza]
Right

00:10:40,286 [Brett Wooden]
… with that tech. And, and then I think you have the other conceptual stuff that’s pretty amazing where you can go visit certain countries and things and not actually be there.

00:10:49,496 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:10:50,056 [Brett Wooden]
You know, that’s kind of, I think, the, the, the cool part of it, I guess, down the road. But right now it’s the tech that’s starting to align with it that I think is gonna be change … like, world-changing …

00:11:01,816 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:11:02,076 [Brett Wooden]
… and advance our civilization forward.

00:11:04,956 [John Lanza]
So you said something in there. There’s two things I, I wanna … The first one is I wanna dig into this money side of things because I was reading this New Yorker article about the metaverse and they said, you know, meta life, you know, whatever you wanna call it, will probably involve a re-imagination of financial life and possibly a shift in our existing social hierarchies and institutions, and I think that’s what you’re getting at. I tend to be more techno utopian like you are, I think. Like, I get excited about these technologies.

00:11:33,026 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:11:33,036 [John Lanza]
But my first thought when you said, “Here’s how it could help you to help your financial wellness,” is but it could also go the other way, and you think about …

00:11:44,196 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:11:44,336 [John Lanza]
… our young kids going in there and suddenly they’re convinced that something like buy now, pay later is a good thing. And …

00:11:52,056 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:11:52,776 [John Lanza]
… I, I haven’t found a reason why that would actually be true, but … and that’s just one example. But when AI gets involved on the finance side, and this is the case with any technology, right? So …

00:12:04,916 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:12:05,056 [John Lanza]
… there’s, there’s gonna be a negative side and there’s gonna be a positive side. And I’m, I’m curious to know- If you have any thoughts on what needs to happen in order for it to … in order for us to take advantage of the, the positives, you know, knowing that the negatives are always gonna be lurking there. ‘Cause I, I like your idea, which is that, you know, look at my finances and, you know, help me, um, be …

00:12:27,780 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:12:27,950 [John Lanza]
… a, you know, better saver or whatever it might be. So I, I’d like your thoughts on that.

00:12:33,300 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, I think, you know, the first part of it is I, I think having that ability within the tech to adapt and cope. So you know, one of the things you see right now with, you know, ChatGPT and those things is you see pushback of like, i- i- what … you know, people are not trying to adapt to it and cope with it. They’re trying to say, “Nope, you can’t use it.”

00:12:54,120 [John Lanza]
Right

00:12:54,380 [Brett Wooden]
Which we know how that … And so but I think the same from …

00:12:56,800 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:12:56,980 [Brett Wooden]
… the financial institution side, we have to start participating in these conversations and not moving fast to say no. Like, I know, I think Chase just said they’re, they can’t use it. A lot of the investment companies are saying, you know, “Don’t, you can’t use it.” Um, and so I think that’s where we’ve gotta start participating from financial institutions and looking at this and going from a perspective of a design thinking approach of what problem are we trying to solve. Are we trying to solve a problem of, like, like you mentioned, of that these environments now are making it really easy to buy things. Like, you can just double …

00:13:31,700 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:13:31,710 [Brett Wooden]
… click, scan your face, and automatically purchase something. And even, like, buy now, pay later, it seems like this, another vicious cycle of getting something material early because you don’t wanna wait and save for it. And so I think part of it is is that the financial institutions need to start looking at these things differently than they look at it now, like doing “Understanding Your Credit” seminars, budgeting sem- like, you have to evolve of, like, budgeting from the digital environment and, y- you know, like, the amount of in-app purchases that kids buy. You know, I think, what, Candy Crush is $400,000 a day that people buy …

00:14:10,090 [John Lanza]
Wow

00:14:10,360 [Brett Wooden]
… in-app purchases with.

00:14:11,240 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:14:11,740 [Brett Wooden]
You know? And then not to mention, you look at the phones themselves, you know? I, I mean …

00:14:18,020 [John Lanza]
Wow

00:14:18,049 [Brett Wooden]
… it is really fascinating, the devices, the costs of them. If you … You know, the, the phone companies and the tech companies have got so smart with the phones of like, “Oh, it’s only $40 a month.” But if you ever said, like, “Click the button, buy now,” like, “Don’t …

00:14:31,880 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:14:32,000 [Brett Wooden]
… pay the monthly payments,” I mean, it’s like $1,800 for an iPhone. It’s unbelievable.

00:14:36,380 [John Lanza]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:14:36,520 [Brett Wooden]
And to think 13-year-old, 10-year-old kid has that …

00:14:39,760 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:14:40,089 [Brett Wooden]
… ph- that expensive device in their hand, it’s, you know, um … And schools require them now. Like, they require …

00:14:46,620 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:14:46,760 [Brett Wooden]
… iPads, and they require these things. And so that’s where I think you’re gonna see …

00:14:52,280 [Brett Wooden]
… the shift of …

00:14:54,360 [Brett Wooden]
challenges because, you know, the more we, uh, that evolves, the more expensive it’s gonna get.

00:14:59,910 [John Lanza]
You know, uh, it’s interesting because, you know, you mention that your kids’ school said, “If you use ChatGPT, you’re gonna be, you know, you’re gonna be …

00:15:08,560 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:15:08,620 [John Lanza]
… penalized.” But it doesn’t it feel like when you get those kind of mandates a little bit like the music industry and Napster? Like, so …

00:15:16,220 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:15:16,240 [John Lanza]
… desperate to figure out how to deal with it. And I just read an article yesterday about ChatGPT and Bing AI. I’ve not used Bing, but it’s kind of …

00:15:26,160 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:15:26,170 [John Lanza]
… you know, it’s having a moment, too, and how to use it as an adjunct to your writing. You know, how to use it …

00:15:33,360 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:15:33,660 [John Lanza]
… in, in a beneficiary way to help, to help you improve your own work.

00:15:38,900 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:15:39,060 [John Lanza]
And we’re talking about here with regard to finance, we’re talking also, you know, a, a lot of this has to run through big institutions, which are, you know, generally fairly conservative. So they’re not going to, there’s not gonna be a …

00:15:49,890 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:15:50,240 [John Lanza]
… an immediate uptake, “Hey, let’s get on the crypto bandwagon.” In fact …

00:15:53,140 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:15:53,250 [John Lanza]
… it’s the opposite. And so how should institutions think about this, and how can they take advantage, especially if they’re fairly conservative? Is there a way that they can kind of dip their toes into the metaverse or into crypto in a way that’s going to position them to be able to compete in five to 10 years? What do you think about that?

00:16:18,300 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, I think what we educate, we, we have a gentleman that, he sits on the blockchain coalition for the state of Utah, and him and I have lots of conversations about all of this. And really what we, we are preaching is staying curious right now, being a part of the conversation …

00:16:36,060 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:16:36,180 [Brett Wooden]
… being a part of, like, your local government and seeing how are they doing, what are they, how are they researching it. And then just talk to the users, you know, seeing what are some of the problems …

00:16:45,760 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:16:45,790 [Brett Wooden]
… they’re having, the why, and really immersing in that, and I think that will prepare you for the future of when you have to start. You know, that’s kind of the way to dip your toes in it, of researching, following.

00:16:58,230 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:16:58,240 [Brett Wooden]
And then maybe even having some, you know, R&D to test some stuff out. There’s nothing wrong with that.

00:17:03,440 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:17:03,720 [Brett Wooden]
I know within our company, we test things all the time and, you know, and if it doesn’t work, you kind of go with that fail fast, right, and, and move on to the next.

00:17:13,450 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:17:13,460 [Brett Wooden]
But …

00:17:14,220 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:17:14,300 [Brett Wooden]
… but I think it’s one of those things you c-

00:17:16,920 [Brett Wooden]
it can’t be these things … You know, a, a lot of the … I think with a lot of banking and, and banking products and services, the challenge is, is that you do have that conservative approach, and you do have individuals that make policies and procedures based on the lowest common denominator, and I think in these environments you can’t do that. It’s like with …

00:17:36,830 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:17:36,830 [Brett Wooden]
… remote deposit capture, I mean, I remember … I mean, there are still institutions to this day that you have to wait a month to, you know, do your false r- first remote deposit capture to see if you’re a fraudster. Or so they make these rules, but they want adoption, so but, you know, try and figure out different ways to get adoption instead of, like, saying, “Okay, most people do their fraud in this amount of time, so let’s not do this.”

00:18:00,950 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:18:00,960 [Brett Wooden]
Like,

00:18:02,260 [Brett Wooden]
build in that factor in. So that’s why I, I think with this stuff is it’s you’ve gotta have individuals that are testing this out, trying things. Um, bringing new ideas to the table that, that, that the, the leadership team is listening to, and not saying, “No, no, no, that’s not us.” I, I think there’s, you know, nothing wrong with bringing in guest speakers or, you know, developing a strategy around it of what, what will we do if crypto takes off, or if ChatGPT does take off and we have … You know, like, one of the things that, I mean, we’ll talk about the scary side of it …

00:18:35,232 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:18:35,472 [Brett Wooden]
… is there’s actually Meta is working with WhatsApp, their, one of their c- part of their company, to develop AI user personas where if you chat to me and say, “Hey, Brett, what are you doing today?” It’s going to use all of my past conversations in my calendar and all that and say, “Oh, I’m actually in a meeting from 10:00 to 1:00, John. Let’s, let’s meet up later today for a beer at this local place,” ’cause it knows on Wednesdays I have nothing planned. And you won’t know if it’s me or if it’s my chatbot, you know? So and I … And that’s coming, and I think that that’s where it’s the scary side is that do we, do we wanna go down a path that makes,

00:19:12,812 [Brett Wooden]
makes social interactions, like our kids and things, like, watching how much they,

00:19:19,032 [Brett Wooden]
they’re not interacting with each other. Like, it feels like everything right now is very like, “Transfer me money via Venmo.”

00:19:27,012 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:19:27,132 [Brett Wooden]
I’ll chat with my friends via chat. Like, there’s no, there’s not a lot of face-to-face anymore.

00:19:32,392 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:19:32,652 [Brett Wooden]
It’s, it’s very …

00:19:34,872 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:19:34,882 [Brett Wooden]
… you know, fascinating to me. But I, but I think that financial institutions in general need to start, set aside R&D, set aside a team that’s doing these conversations, watching, bringing it to the leadership team on a biweekly basis of what’s happening, ’cause it is moving so fast.

00:19:51,672 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah, and when I say institutionally, say, you know, if I belong to a credit union, I certainly want them to be conservative on some level. I don’t want them to be playing …

00:20:01,382 [Brett Wooden]
Yes. Oh, yeah.

00:20:01,952 [John Lanza]
… fast and loose with my money. [laughs]

00:20:03,722 [Brett Wooden]
Right

00:20:03,752 [John Lanza]
So I understand if I’m running a credit union, this is a very, very hard space to kind of find a place to plant your flag. I, I w- I wanna make that very clear …

00:20:14,842 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:20:14,852 [John Lanza]
… ’cause I understand this is very difficult. And but I, I do, when I think, when I see the reactions that, that happen, and I’m actually not talking on the, on the financial institution level, I, I think the reaction of teachers saying, “No G- ChatGPT,” that reminds me of when I was in high school, uh, and I, I was doing a paper on my computer, and my teacher would not accept my paper on a dot matrix printer. And I thought, “That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. I’ve just used a word processor to write this paper, and now I have to go back to a typewriter and type it out?”

00:20:51,002 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:20:51,022 [John Lanza]
And it’s those kind of things that make you as a student think, “Okay, these guys just do not get it.” And it just doesn’t make any sense. And it, this is, I mean, ChatGPT is a whole, you know, another level beyond, you know …

00:21:02,252 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:21:02,262 [John Lanza]
… switching from going to a dot matrix printer to a typewriter. But it’s that same kind of reactionary approach that, that, you know, ended up killing the music industry, where you just say, “No, we’re gonna …

00:21:11,572 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:21:11,712 [John Lanza]
… we’re gonna try to, we’re gonna try to police our way out of this.” And you know you’re not gonna police your way out of something where the youth is involved, because they’re gonna figure out some way to make s- to, to use …

00:21:24,012 [Brett Wooden]
Oh, yeah

00:21:24,462 [John Lanza]
… this technology, and you’ve got to figure out how to embrace it, right?

00:21:27,112 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:21:27,352 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:21:27,972 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, and I … It was funny, I attended a, a career fair yesterday, or not career fair, a career day at my daughter’s high school.

00:21:34,712 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:21:34,732 [Brett Wooden]
And I got to speak to the students and, and then be in the kind of like gym and talk about some of this stuff. And it is amazing, they find ways. Like, you know, and my conversation was app development with the kids, and one of them said, like, what do I think of Life360, which is that app that can show you where your kids are at, how fast they’re driving. And I go, and they asked me, “What do you think of that?” I go, “Well, I think every kid knows a way, a hack around that.”

00:21:58,802 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:21:58,812 [Brett Wooden]
And they all, like, smiled. Like, no one [laughs] didn’t smile. And it’s like, “Oh, I know the hack. You just go into the data plan and you turn off the data, and it’s gonna pinpoint …

00:22:08,132 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:22:08,141 [Brett Wooden]
… where you were at originally. It’s not gonna say you turned your phone off.”

00:22:12,082 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:22:12,092 [Brett Wooden]
But I think, you know, the other thing,

00:22:14,212 [Brett Wooden]
uh, I forgot to mention this piece.

00:22:16,812 [Brett Wooden]
The one area I do think we can impact as financial institutions in the metaverse right now is financial education for kids. I would say like 60 to 70% of their time, there’s tons of articles about Roblox, Minecraft, all these games these kids are in, The Sims, Grand Theft Auto. Like, and that’s a, Grand Theft Auto is an extreme, but, but these games have no financial … Like in Roblox, you, you can go to Bloxburg, build houses, get a job, and when you walk out of your job, it just pops up with a blank and says you made 300 bucks, right?

00:22:51,112 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:22:51,412 [Brett Wooden]
But if we built in there like a credit union where they can learn to be a teller, they can deposit their check after, they can see, like … ‘Cause they’re having to pay bills in the game.

00:23:02,812 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:23:02,932 [Brett Wooden]
Why not have some form of education in that game? Go where the kids are at. And I think sometimes these things are missed, you know, ’cause it’s like marketing, right? I mean, you’re, you market where the people are at. You know, you don’t … And that’s where I think we’re missing the boat a little bit. I, I think that we could partner with some of these companies, whether it’s our credit union leagues, you know, CUNA, the National Credit Union Foundation. Like, I, I think these organizations need to start talking to some of these gaming companies and say, “Hey, can we partner and put a credit union in the game or, you know, have some form of education?”

00:23:35,292 [John Lanza]
You know, that’s a great idea because a lot of these credit union foundations will run financial simulations, you know, things like …

00:23:41,732 [Brett Wooden]
Yes

00:23:42,032 [John Lanza]
… an abun- about money. And the idea of doing, I don’t know, I know that some of them have kind of apps that are tied to it, but the idea of doing it in virtual space makes so much sense because …

00:23:53,512 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:23:54,032 [John Lanza]
… you know, if, if you’ve, if you’ve, if you’ve ever done, I’ve done one of those financial simulations, and they really are eye-opening. They can be really help- I did it as an adult ’cause I was kind of testing it out.

00:24:03,152 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:24:03,172 [John Lanza]
But when kids do them, they always learn something from them. So I think you’re onto that. I think that’s a, that’s a fantastic idea.

00:24:10,432 [Brett Wooden]
Well, and then you get the influencers. So, like, one of, one of the things that most fascinated me was, this was a couple weeks ago- My younger daughter follows ItsFunneh, is like this influencer, and her …

00:24:22,080 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:24:22,200 [Brett Wooden]
… and her friends, they sit and play Minecraft or Roadblocks and talk, but there’s millions of [laughs] followers that just watch all day. They watch these … So they did a fundraiser, so it was an hour fundraiser,

00:24:37,400 [Brett Wooden]
and they had a QR code on the screen, so this is in YouTube, and they were doing it for, I forgot the children’s hospital that they were doing it for.

00:24:45,450 [John Lanza]
Hmm

00:24:45,480 [Brett Wooden]
But if you donated money, scan the code and donated money, they would make a pizza in the game and then share your name. So they would say your name.

00:24:54,390 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:24:54,440 [Brett Wooden]
And I, I actually recorded it. So my daughter, I was like, “Hey, donate 25 bucks, let’s see what happens.” And they …

00:25:00,180 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:25:00,300 [Brett Wooden]
… made her a pepperoni pizza, and then they said, “Thank you very much, Grace,” you know, and they read Grace’s message. And the look on [laughs] her face was like … But here’s the thing, in an hour they almost hit $2 million, which I’m like, I’ve attended credit union events where, I mean, we sit there and paddle raise and do all, and we don’t even hit close to that. And these kids …

00:25:20,550 [John Lanza]
No, that’s unbelievable.

00:25:21,340 [Brett Wooden]
… like influencers and … Yeah. And it’s like, so that’s,

00:25:25,430 [Brett Wooden]
I- it’s one of those things where it’s like how do you …

00:25:28,720 [Brett Wooden]
The only way you can be a part of this stuff is to research it, watch it, understand it, participate in it.

00:25:35,180 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:25:35,200 [Brett Wooden]
And I think that that’s where if … I mean, if I, if someone came d- to, like, our company and said, “Hey, Brett, we really wanna get in the metaverse, how would we do it?” This is exactly …

00:25:43,550 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:25:43,570 [Brett Wooden]
… I mean, this is the first part, is financial education is the, the best entry point because you already have a huge generation that’s in it.

00:25:53,920 [John Lanza]
Yeah. And I, you know, I love this i- ’cause, I mean, now you’re talking about the, uh, the Share jar and making that.

00:25:58,870 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:25:58,920 [John Lanza]
Is it possible for you to share that video? Can we share that in the show notes? Because …

00:26:03,100 [Brett Wooden]
Mm-hmm

00:26:03,420 [John Lanza]
… I would love, if you’re, if you’re okay with it, I think people …

00:26:06,060 [Brett Wooden]
Oh, yeah, yeah

00:26:06,360 [John Lanza]
… would love to see it. $2 million, that’s incredible. [laughs] Obviously I’m excited about the fact that, that you’re excited about financial education being a real opportunity in the metaverse, and I’ve al- we’ve already got plenty of really cool ideas [laughs] of thinking about … I have to ask you this question, though, and this is a little bit off subject. What are your feelings on, you know, TikTok being owned by Tencent?

00:26:27,340 [Brett Wooden]
So I’ll have to send you the notes that I’ve got on this, but …

00:26:29,900 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:26:30,160 [Brett Wooden]
… I know that they, I believe they own a percentage of Fortnite. They also …

00:26:34,040 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:26:34,200 [Brett Wooden]
… own Spotify, so you see, like, these virtual concerts. I mean, think of this, like, Tencent is doing virtual concerts in Fortnite, and they already have the artists because they own Spotify.

00:26:46,580 [John Lanza]
Got it. Yeah.

00:26:47,469 [Brett Wooden]
So I think that it’s one of those things. It is scary. I will say that, you know, these companies, like even Apple and Google,

00:26:53,980 [Brett Wooden]
the amount of power that they have on just all of us, I think it is scary, but at the same time, I think we’re gonna see more of this happen. And then even with Tencent, they own, I think they own WeChat …

00:27:05,780 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:27:06,040 [Brett Wooden]
… and that’s a payment platform, too. So I mean, they …

00:27:08,689 [John Lanza]
Yeah, yeah

00:27:08,689 [Brett Wooden]
… there’s a lot of things that they can do. And TikTok, which is, I think my kids spend more screen time on TikTok than any [laughs] other app, so …

00:27:19,520 [John Lanza]
No, and I, I’m not on TikTok, but I do know, you know, TikTok has … I mean, my wife has cooked a number of meals based on TikTok recipes. I know my kids … I, I know a big thing on TikTok was, ’cause I have one who’s, one kid who’s in college, another one who is applying right now, and there is a lot of content on there about avoiding college debt. So that is a …

00:27:42,200 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:27:42,460 [John Lanza]
… major positive, and I think that’s great.

00:27:45,160 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:27:45,440 [John Lanza]
Because it’s something we obviously talk about here at home, but the fact that it’s making the rounds on TikTok, I think that, that gave me a little hope. I was excited about that. [laughs]

00:27:54,969 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah. Yeah, and I think it’s anything … You know, there is, like, the positives and negatives to everything. You know, I think that …

00:28:01,800 [John Lanza]
Yeah, yeah

00:28:02,130 [Brett Wooden]
… ’cause now the big movement is someone … I, I have a friend, he sent me an app now that it controls your screen time.

00:28:09,210 [John Lanza]
Hmm

00:28:09,240 [Brett Wooden]
And I know, like, that, you know, Google and Apple have their screen time, but this one you pay $100 a year, and it legit will, you get, like, points and bonuses for not spending too much time on social. And, like, it’s really a fascinating … I’ll put this in the, I’ll send you this link, too, as well.

00:28:26,120 [John Lanza]
Good

00:28:26,260 [Brett Wooden]
Um …

00:28:26,490 [John Lanza]
Good, good

00:28:27,160 [Brett Wooden]
… ’cause I’ve been, I’ve been playing with it, and it is really fascinating, where it, it kind of, like, penalizes you if you, like, if you get up in the middle of the night and look at your phone, right?

00:28:35,029 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:28:35,060 [Brett Wooden]
We- w- they’ve been, done studies that that blue light can affect your sleeping patterns …

00:28:39,400 [John Lanza]
Sure

00:28:39,410 [Brett Wooden]
… and stuff. Well, it’ll penalize you.

00:28:41,060 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:28:41,070 [Brett Wooden]
You won’t get your little sleep token.

00:28:43,820 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:28:44,000 [Brett Wooden]
So

00:28:44,580 [John Lanza]
Yeah, I mean, the phones definitely have, and I, I think a lot of it has come from the, Tristan Harris’s company, I’m forgetting the name of it, maybe we can put it into the, the show notes, but of, of making tech much more focused on our own wellness. There are a lot of now built-in mechanisms to help you protect [laughs] yourself …

00:29:05,220 [Brett Wooden]
Yes, yeah

00:29:06,460 [John Lanza]
… against the, against using the phone too much. So we both … I have, wanna ask you this. Y- we both do a lot of work with credit unions, for example. Where do you think credit unions’ biggest opportunities lie when it comes to metaverse, tech, maybe even family financial wellness?

00:29:22,720 [Brett Wooden]
Well, first the financial wellness for kids. I think that’s kind of the starting point.

00:29:26,840 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:29:27,540 [Brett Wooden]
Just because, you know, that’s where they’re, all the kids are at. But then I think you can piggyback a lot of that stuff with the parents.

00:29:34,750 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:29:34,800 [Brett Wooden]
I think opportunity of educating parents, like, what games are your kids in and how much money are they spending?

00:29:40,310 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:29:40,360 [Brett Wooden]
So if we create certain algorithms within mobile and online banking that say, “Hey, your kid …” Like, I mean, my kids have checking accounts at a credit union, and there’s, you can go in and look kind of what they’re spending and how they’re spending it. But more data on that, controlling more of that, educating them on that, I think there’s a lot of opportunity there.

00:30:02,230 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:30:02,260 [Brett Wooden]
I think the …

00:30:02,660 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:30:02,720 [Brett Wooden]
… you know, the other opportunity is, is with student loan debt, college, you know, college selection, buying their first car. Like, I, I just feel like there needs to be some form of digital

00:30:15,620 [Brett Wooden]
platform that helps walk parents through- These life journeys. The ones that I’ve been a part of, it’s like you go to this college night, they tell you all these things that your kids need to be prepared for, how they select their college, and then the lovely, the end of it, they bring out the individual that talks to you about, [laughs] you know, financial aid, and shows you the true …

00:30:34,592 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:30:34,912 [Brett Wooden]
… cost of college, and you’re just like, “Where’s my, where’s my paper bag?”

00:30:38,282 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:30:38,282 [Brett Wooden]
And so I, I do think there is a form of, like, looking at, looking at a credit union, looking at your members and defining, what are some of the problems within …

00:30:48,172 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:30:48,232 [Brett Wooden]
… those environments, whether it’s, you know, like buy now, pay later, or if it’s, you know, these payday lenders, or if it’s, hey, you’re, you’ve got kids, and what does that cycle look like, and what are some … You know, and, and not making it over-complicated, but I really think …

00:31:03,921 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:31:03,921 [Brett Wooden]
… these are all living and life events with individuals. I think we need to get back to that as, as credit unions. Now, I think we do it …

00:31:11,252 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:31:11,372 [Brett Wooden]
… with our communities, we do really a great job with our communities, but I think looking at the life events of individuals and tying things around that, education, services, apps, digital things, you know, to help people through these, these life cycles.

00:31:26,312 [John Lanza]
Got it. So tell me how you have … I mean, you mentioned the video, your kids were raising ridiculous amounts of money via influencer.

00:31:36,072 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:31:37,132 [John Lanza]
What’s another way that you’re using tech to teach your own kids about money, to help them? How are you embracing tech to do that?

00:31:46,092 [Brett Wooden]
Gosh, a lot of things that I’m, I’ve really gotten into now is, um … So there’s the, we bought a 3D printer, so our kind of big Christmas item, we bought a 3D printer for the family. And so one of the things that, you know, I’m showing my kids, like, how

00:32:01,152 [Brett Wooden]
individuals out there are utilizing 3D printers to print things and sell things on the internet. So there’s, you know …

00:32:08,252 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:32:08,332 [Brett Wooden]
… Etsy, and so I’m teaching them kind of from a business perspective, ’cause they’re babysitting now, and so kind of talking about that from a business lens of, like, how do you approach that conversation with an adult when you need to babysit their kids? What do you charge?

00:32:22,962 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:32:22,992 [Brett Wooden]
Why do you charge that amount? What makes you different from other babysitters? And so we’re utilizing, you know, some of these resources like websites, Instagram pages, and things to, to promote themselves to get, get kind of a cash flow.

00:32:37,652 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:32:38,232 [Brett Wooden]
So we’ve got the 3D printer, and then w- we also talk about other ideas. So my younger daughter is, she does coding for Roblox, and so when that, she publishes a game or a piece of clothing or something like that, Roblox pays her a, pays back in Robux, so she can buy …

00:32:56,992 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:32:57,062 [Brett Wooden]
… things in the game. So we talk about …

00:32:58,932 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:32:58,942 [Brett Wooden]
… kind of that piece of it of, like, okay, so you’ve spent eight hours developing this game for Roblox, and they gave you two bucks in Robux, is that worth your time …

00:33:10,111 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:33:10,842 [Brett Wooden]
… and why?

00:33:10,842 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:33:10,852 [Brett Wooden]
You know?

00:33:11,802 [John Lanza]
Right

00:33:11,852 [Brett Wooden]
So there are kind of, like, life lessons that you can teach with tech, coding. And then the other piece too is, you know, the value, I, I think one of my favorite things is to watch kids with their devices. Like at the high school yesterday, they treat them so poorly. Like, I watch, like, we were in this gym, and I could have literally heard, like, 50 phones drop, right …

00:33:32,952 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:33:32,962 [Brett Wooden]
… in that wood floor, and I’m just like, “Oh my gosh, these are, like, $1,800, $1,600 phones,” right? And you just see, like, they kind of throw their laptops around. I, I look at it, like, wow, this is an expensive piece of, you know, tech. Of course, all that, financial apps, so we, our kids are enrolled in, you know, a credit union. They have checking accounts. They both have mobile apps on their phone. They transfer funds from their savings. We teach them about,

00:33:57,432 [Brett Wooden]
you know, kind of that, uh … Our, our daughter really got into buying all of her friends food, and we’re like, “Hey, you worked all summer long. You can’t buy your friends …

00:34:05,612 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:34:05,972 [Brett Wooden]
… you know, dinner every time. You know, you gotta …

00:34:08,452 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm

00:34:09,112 [Brett Wooden]
… you know, teach the going Dutch,” that kind of thing, so.

00:34:13,012 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:34:13,392 [Brett Wooden]
You know?

00:34:13,442 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:34:13,872 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:34:14,732 [John Lanza]
Now, you, so they have a checking account. Have they written a check? [laughs]

00:34:18,332 [Brett Wooden]
No, no. No, Venmo, Venmo is their life.

00:34:22,112 [John Lanza]
Right

00:34:22,232 [Brett Wooden]
And then we also …

00:34:22,872 [John Lanza]
Right

00:34:22,882 [Brett Wooden]
… do kind of that Apple …

00:34:24,052 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:34:24,612 [Brett Wooden]
… to transfer money, but no, they,

00:34:27,912 [Brett Wooden]
they don’t. In fact, it was funny, in a class that I was talking to, I asked them a question of, like, what do you, what do you call, like, when you make money, and, and where do you put it, and how do you do it? A lot of them say, “Call it money management. It’s how I manage my money.”

00:34:40,902 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:34:41,412 [Brett Wooden]
Like, none of them …

00:34:42,022 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:34:42,022 [Brett Wooden]
… say checking account. They’re all like, “Well, it’s, you know, I have it in my app where I manage my money.” Like, it’s really …

00:34:47,232 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:34:47,302 [Brett Wooden]
… fascinating that …

00:34:49,962 [Brett Wooden]
… It’s gonna be fun in the next two to three years with how things …

00:34:53,192 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:34:53,342 [Brett Wooden]
… pivot.

00:34:54,812 [John Lanza]
It definitely will. I, [laughs] I have to tell you, yeah, speaking of not treating your technology devices well, we caught our older daughter one time dragging her phone by the cord as though it were a dog on a leash.

00:35:08,512 [Brett Wooden]
[laughs] Yeah

00:35:08,922 [John Lanza]
And [laughs] just, what is going on? Okay.

00:35:13,472 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:35:13,692 [John Lanza]
So we only have a limited amount of time. I, I, I still have a lot of questions I would like to ask about technology, but I have to ask you our fast and fun round questions because …

00:35:24,392 [Brett Wooden]
Okay

00:35:24,872 [John Lanza]
… I love getting the answers to these. So are you prepared for these, Brett?

00:35:28,412 [Brett Wooden]
I’m ready. I’m ready.

00:35:29,932 [John Lanza]
Okay, you’re strapped in. You’re ready. Here we go. First one is, what does the term “money-empowered” mean to you?

00:35:38,972 [Brett Wooden]
“Money-empowered.” It m- it means that you can make, well, you can make decisions, gosh, decisions based on

00:35:47,932 [Brett Wooden]
b- being financially, uh, making strong financial decisions, I would say that is …

00:35:52,952 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:35:52,962 [Brett Wooden]
… you’re money-empowered, that you,

00:35:55,452 [Brett Wooden]
the things you buy, the things you do, you have the financial empowerment to do so.

00:36:01,392 [John Lanza]
Great. Thank you. What is the best investment of time or money you’ve ever spent on your kids?

00:36:09,712 [Brett Wooden]
Ooh, on my kids. I would say our vacations, um, preferably Disney cruises. It’s very expensive to bring [laughs] kids on those Disney cruises, but I’m telling you, it’s like, it’s, we always talk about it.

00:36:25,084 [John Lanza]
Yeah, experiences. Experiences are key. That’s great.

00:36:28,544 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:36:29,184 [John Lanza]
What advice to your kids do you most hope that they will listen to?

00:36:36,924 [Brett Wooden]
I would say the life experiences, that material things are material things, but life experiences will …

00:36:44,284 [Brett Wooden]
… They define you, and that’s one of the espe- you know, especially, I would say my daughter going to a private school, a lot of the kids drive, like, really expensive cars, and

00:36:53,704 [Brett Wooden]
it’s …

00:36:53,744 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:36:53,964 [Brett Wooden]
… it’s great to know that she drives kind of a, it’s a good car, but it’s definitely not an Audi or a BMW. But she, it doesn’t bother her at all. Like, she never brings it up, and I just think that’s cool. It’s, she’s more involved in the life experiences of, like, where we’re going, the beach,

00:37:09,264 [Brett Wooden]
you know, those type things.

00:37:11,874 [John Lanza]
Nice. Very nice.

00:37:13,504 [John Lanza]
If you could transmit a message that everyone would see, sky-written, it’s gonna be on a billboard, it’s gonna be all over the place, what would that message say, Brett?

00:37:24,384 [Brett Wooden]
Oh. I would honestly say, like, as, as now the age I am, live every

00:37:29,744 [Brett Wooden]
day at a time. Take a day at a time and enjoy the day. Enjoy the day, ’cause it goes so fast. It’s just unbelievable.

00:37:39,384 [John Lanza]
That seems very appropriate for you. You always seem very present to every conversation that I’ve ever been in with you. [laughs]

00:37:46,414 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah. It’s just enjoying the … ‘Cause things, it’s just amazing. Like, especially last year, we had a lot of life events happen, and, you know, it just, making sure that you get the most out of all of it.

00:37:59,024 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:38:00,884 [John Lanza]
Good advice.

00:38:02,464 [John Lanza]
Okay. What’s the one parenting and/or money smarts book, podcast, or it could be any media, could be a game, that you go back to or that you give the most often?

00:38:13,804 [Brett Wooden]
Everybody Lies. That is my favorite by far. The book is essentially about the gentleman,

00:38:19,964 [Brett Wooden]
part of his research is he looks at Google searches,

00:38:23,324 [Brett Wooden]
and people …

00:38:24,154 [John Lanza]
Wow. Yeah.

00:38:24,174 [Brett Wooden]
… don’t lie to Google. [laughs]

00:38:25,224 [John Lanza]
That’s what he, he …

00:38:25,914 [Brett Wooden]
So that’s the point he’s trying to prove, so.

00:38:28,584 [John Lanza]
Yeah, yeah. Everybody Lies, that’s the name of the book?

00:38:32,064 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, yeah

00:38:33,524 [John Lanza]
Okay

00:38:35,163 [John Lanza]
Well, we will put that in the show notes, too. Okay, Brett, so how can people find you on social media and/or the web, to the extent that you want them to find you? [laughs]

00:38:45,044 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, yeah. So I’ve got, so Instagram, it’s just Brett Wooden. But if you really wanna have fun and follow my LEGO stuff, so in college and in high school, which is kinda interesting, in high school was, is Woody the Woodpecker was my, so Woody was my nickname, ’cause my last name’s Wooden. And then as I got into college, Woody from Toy Story is what everybody kind of associated me with. But I have lego_woody, and that’s where all of my LEGO builds and is on Instagram. So if you’re interested in seeing kinda the LEGO side of me. And then LinkedIn, I, like LinkedIn as the hub for me …

00:39:18,864 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:39:18,964 [Brett Wooden]
… as well as Instagram.

00:39:21,464 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah, now the audience may not know this, they probably can’t tell, but Brett is 6’4″ and played, you played college football, right?

00:39:29,524 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, I played a year, so yeah.

00:39:31,284 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:39:31,294 [Brett Wooden]
And then realized, like, I’m not fast enough, not, you know.

00:39:35,224 [John Lanza]
But you were defensive end …

00:39:36,254 [Brett Wooden]
I played basketball and baseball, too.

00:39:36,294 [John Lanza]
… weren’t you?

00:39:37,624 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, so they moved me, in high school I was at defensive end, and then in college when I went to the all-star game, they moved me to defensive back.

00:39:44,324 [John Lanza]
Yeah, got it.

00:39:44,364 [Brett Wooden]
And that’s kinda where trying to le- relearn something was not, not …

00:39:48,404 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:39:48,564 [Brett Wooden]
…

00:39:50,564 [Brett Wooden]
… not fun.

00:39:51,284 [John Lanza]
Yeah, well …

00:39:51,944 [Brett Wooden]
I guess.

00:39:51,964 [John Lanza]
… Yeah, that … [laughs] Well, that’s like the prototypical, that, those are the kind of defensive backs that teams want now, 6’4″, long arms, like …

00:39:58,984 [Brett Wooden]
Right, yeah

00:39:59,173 [John Lanza]
… the Seahawks just got Tariq Woolen. And you know, not to get too off on the tangent here, but we’re excited about that up in …

00:40:06,044 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:40:06,173 [John Lanza]
… in Seattle Seahawks country. [laughs]

00:40:08,564 [Brett Wooden]
So the funny thing, I’ll, you know, I’ll kinda end with this was since you mentioned the Seahawks, so yesterday at the career day, so Shane Waldron is the offensive coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks. He went to …

00:40:17,104 [John Lanza]
Oh, yeah?

00:40:17,624 [Brett Wooden]
… La Salle where I was at.

00:40:19,424 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:40:19,434 [Brett Wooden]
And he spoke via Zoom to the kids. My daughter was the only female in his session talking about his career. So I thought it was really …

00:40:28,554 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:40:28,604 [Brett Wooden]
… All the teachers were coming up to me and like, “She’s breaking the ceiling. She’s, she wants to get into sports coaching.”

00:40:34,074 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:40:34,134 [Brett Wooden]
And I was like, “All right,” you know? So it’s pretty cool, but …

00:40:37,044 [John Lanza]
That’s fantastic.

00:40:37,394 [Brett Wooden]
… he’s a cool guy, too.

00:40:38,324 [John Lanza]
Oh,

00:40:39,704 [John Lanza]
Shane is?

00:40:41,464 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, yeah. He …

00:40:42,584 [John Lanza]
That’s neat.

00:40:42,694 [Brett Wooden]
… I played football with him in high school. He was a year older, so.

00:40:45,884 [John Lanza]
Nice, nice. Okay, well, one last question, which is what’s one action you’d like other people to take that would be helpful for you?

00:40:54,064 [Brett Wooden]
I would say, you know, if, if financial institutions are listening right now, it’s really start the conversation of that financial education. And if you are interested in moving that stuff forward, I mean, reach out to me in those social environments, and I can help with that conversation and get, just get things started. You know, I, I think that that’s a big thing for kids right now is, is helping them in those environments.

00:41:18,844 [John Lanza]
Well, this has been fantastic, Brett. I am so glad you came on and we had a kinda different type of conversation, talking about the metaverse …

00:41:26,014 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah

00:41:26,014 [John Lanza]
… and tech. I think we only tapped into a tiny amount of the information that you are able to share, but I’m glad we, you were able to at least get some of that in, in, on here on The Art of Allowance Podcast. So thank you again for joining us.

00:41:39,624 [Brett Wooden]
Yeah, thank you for having me. [upbeat music]

00:41:48,984 [John Lanza]
I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Art of Allowance Podcast. Please subscribe to our show and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. This will allow me to have more conversations with money experts and parents, and sometimes both, to get more ideas that can help us all raise more money-smart and money-empowered kids. You can find out all about our movement at themoneymammals.com. The Money Mammals, our program to get your kids excited about money smarts when they’re young, is now a part of our new program for families, The Art of Allowance Project. It also includes Adolescent$ for tweens and teens. You can find out all about this new program on our site, themoneymammals.com. Of course, please consult with a financial or investment professional before engaging in any decisions that might affect your financial well-being. And until next time, I wish you and your family well on your own money-smart journey. Thanks for listening.

00:42:58,984 [John Lanza]
[upbeat music]