“Try to use [your] values to guide and prioritize financial decisions.”
— Robin Taub
How can parents incorporate family values into the money conversations they’re having with their kids?
Robin Taub offers several strategies during her second appearance on The Art of Allowance Podcast. A Chartered Professional Accountant (CPA, CA) by training, Robin began her career at KPMG, transitioned into real estate and then landed in the complex world of derivatives marketing at Citibank Canada. Today, she’s an author and a professional speaker. Robin lives in Toronto, where she and her husband have raised two (mostly) money-smart twenty-somethings. She is an avid cyclist, snowboarder, music lover and concert goer. I’m excited to welcome her back for a conversation about her new book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent and Money-Smart for Life.
Links (From the Show)
- A Canadian culture crash course
- Money-smart resources
- My newsletter on “gazintas” and “gazoutas”
- Robin’s new book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent and Money-Smart for Life
- Susan Latremoille’s The RichLife: Managing Wealth and Purpose
- The Money Savvy Pig
- The Role Model Self-Assessment
- The Values Validator (available for download from Robin’s website)
- Reaching Robin on the web
- Robin’s Art of Allowance Podcast shorts
Show Notes (Find what’s most interesting to you!)
- A refresher on Robin [3:44]
- When should parents begin to talk to their kids about money? [5:30]
- What do initial money conversations sound like? [6:21]
- Loonies and toonies: an introduction to Canadian currency [9:01]
- How to keep the Share (or Charitable Giving) jar top of mind [11:11]
- The younger children are, the easier you can instill values and habits. [13:22]
- Another Canadian culture lesson: Terry Fox [14:22]
- Financial literacy apps are tools, not solutions. Kids’ frictionless use of money makes parental guidance all the more important. [14:48]
- Using enhanced interest to incentivize saving [19:06]
- The double-edged sword of compounding [21:46]
- Truth bomb: An allowance is your child’s money. [23:17]
- The budgeting behemoth: You may not need to budget to teach budgeting. However, you must mind your gazintas and gazoutas. [26:30]
- “Doing things so that you can sleep at night” [34:34]
- Examples of good and bad debt [36:06]
- Susan Latremoille’s meaning of the word “rich”: Live well. Give back. Leave a legacy. [38:36]
- The cultural and financial differences between Canada and the United States [40:13]
- What if two parents are not on the same page financially? [43:29]
- A potpourri of quick thoughts: cryptocurrency [47:27], financial investing apps [48:18], money transfer apps [49:26] and Howard Marks [50:06]
- Reaching Robin on the web [50:49]
Click here for the full transcript.
If you liked this episode …
Need more info. on financial literacy apps for kids? One of my first podcast guests, Bill Dwight, is the founder of FamZoo, the program that Robin and I both reference in this episode. Listen in to learn about this “Virtual Family Bank” and to discover many money-smart teaching techniques (gleaned from Bill’s own experiences as a father of five) that you can use with your teenagers, tweens and younger children.
Still trying to figure out how to start values-based money conversations? Then you’ll want to bookmark my discussion with Arizona financial coach Kelsa Dickey. Be sure to tune in at 8:04 for her tips on beginning these important conversations with your kids and at 13:47 for her thoughts on value-based decision making.
Looking for a strategy to impart your family values through an allowance system? Then I think you’ll enjoy my discussion with Tom Henske, a New York City Certified Financial Planner and Financial Advisor who offers great advice about how to use matching to teach children the money values you want them to learn. This section begins at 31:00.
Please Subscribe
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You might also want to check out The Art of Allowance Project, our reimagined program to get your children excited about money smarts at any age. Until next time, I wish you and your family well as you journey forth.
Thanks for listening.
John
Full Transcript
This transcript is from The Art of Allowance Podcast, Episode 48, featuring host John Lanza and guest Robin Taub.
00:00:00,200 [John Lanza]
Hello and welcome back to The Art of Allowance Podcast, episode number 48.
00:00:06,660 [Robin Taub]
I’m sure in the book you saw the values validator exercise. So it’s an exercise to help you figure out what your top five values are out of about 20. And I suggest both parents do that exercise. See where there’s overlap and use it as an opportunity to have a conversation where there isn’t overlap. So oh, you’ve listed these things as, let’s say, it’s adventure and i- is your partner’s top value and yours is security. So those are kind of opposing. So how do you come to a compromise or … Just trying to get a better understanding of where they’re coming from and why it’s important to them and then seeing, hopefully, where you do overlap, maybe it’s education or family. And then getting your kids to do it as well because they may have their own values and priorities that are slightly different from yours and it’s just a way to understand where everyone’s coming from and to try to use those values to guide and prioritize financial decisions to almost act like an invisible framework. It’s like your North Star, like where … You go back to those when you’re trying to figure out, okay, you know, we have to make trade-offs, how do we do that? Or we’re setting goals now, how do we do that?
00:01:27,160 [John Lanza]
I’m excited to welcome Robin Taub back to the podcast. Robin offers several strategies of incorporating your family’s values into the money conversations you have with your kids during her second appearance on The Art of Allowance Podcast. Robin is a chartered professional accountant, CPA, by training. Robin began her career at KPMG, transitioned into real estate and then landed in the complex world of derivatives marketing at Citibank Canada. Today she is an author and a professional speaker. She lives in Toronto where she and her husband have raised two mostly money smart 20-somethings. She is an avid cyclist, snowboarder, music lover and concertgoer. I’m excited to welcome her back for a conversation about her new book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids To Be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life. We cover a lot of ground in this episode including when to begin the money conversation, the aforementioned values, uh, and money, the importance of instilling habits when they’re young, the dangers of compounding, that’s right, the dangers, budgeting, good and bad debt and the meaning of the word rich and even her thoughts on cryptocurrency. I think you’ll enjoy my conversation with Robin Taub.
00:02:55,520 [John Lanza]
Today I am talking with Robin Taub. So this is Robin’s second appearance on the podcast and I’ve invited her here to talk about her newest book, The Wisest Investment. And, uh, welcome, Robin.
00:03:09,780 [Robin Taub]
Thank you. Here it is. [laughs]
00:03:11,680 [John Lanza]
There it is. It’s a really good read. I enjoyed it very much. I love the organization.
00:03:17,100 [Robin Taub]
Thank you.
00:03:17,480 [John Lanza]
And, um, our, our last conversation took kind of place in the right lockdown time and, uh, we’re finally emerging from the pandemic so it’s nice to have you back at a time where things are more hopeful.
00:03:30,290 [Robin Taub]
Yes.
00:03:30,440 [John Lanza]
And, um, I would posit that your book is very hopeful and, uh, before we jump in, dive into my questions, just tell us a little bit about yourself, just remind our audience.
00:03:43,200 [Robin Taub]
Sure, so I am from Toronto, Canada and I’m an accountant by training but I like to say that I’m not your typical accountant even though my career did start off, um, at one of the big accounting firms and I also worked at Citibank Canada in derivatives marketing, for the last 20 or so years I’ve been involved in financial literacy and as you mentioned I’m the author of this book, The Wisest Investment, and I’m also a professional speaker.
00:04:11,740 [John Lanza]
So let’s ju-
00:04:12,480 [Robin Taub]
Oh, and a mother. I should have mentioned. [laughs]
00:04:16,070 [John Lanza]
[laughs]
00:04:16,640 [Robin Taub]
I’m also a mother of two kids that are now in their 20s so I have also really lived this journey with them and continue to. Sorry to interrupt you.
00:04:27,680 [John Lanza]
No, that’s, that’s all right and, and the journey really does matter. I was just talking with a, a colleague who is a new mother and-
00:04:35,390 [Robin Taub]
Ah.
00:04:35,460 [John Lanza]
… who like you is an expert on financial literacy but was expressing how even though she knows this stuff inside and out there’s a certain amount of anxiety that comes about when it’s your own kids, right? And having to figure it all out with them.
00:04:53,360 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.
00:04:53,520 [John Lanza]
And, um, but I think that’s, I think that’s where your book plants a flag in, in that exact area, right? Is to say you can do this and we can all do this and that’s, that’s what I like about it. So let’s… I want to start with what I thought was, was really a wonderful passage. Um, you say kids are curious, they spend a lot of time just trying to figure out how the world works and if they’re old enough to ask questions about money then they’re old enough to deserve a good answer, hear, hear. So, uh, Robin, what is the earliest age that we should be prepared to talk to our kids about money?
00:05:30,680 [Robin Taub]
It’s usually around age five. Now that’s not a hard and fast rule so if you have a child who is precocious and curious and asking about money earlier, then by all means, but usually it corresponds to the time when they go to preschool, when they’re around other kids, they can see what other kids have and do and they start expressing a curiosity about money.
00:05:53,720 [John Lanza]
Got it. So
00:05:56,260 [John Lanza]
we’re gonna talk a little bit about your kids ’cause I know from our previous conversation that, uh, you focused on conversations with your kids as much as allowance which, uh-
00:06:06,640 [Robin Taub]
Yes, that’s right
00:06:06,870 [John Lanza]
… I really like that because-Yeah. I, I’ve, I’ve… I, I often say like, uh, I think, eh, the most important, uh, one of the key, uh, key reasons that an allowance is important is just that it starts the conversation, right?
00:06:19,944 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.
00:06:20,464 [John Lanza]
Um, what did those early conversations, uh, sound like with your kids? Just like some examples of how this conversation can happen for folks with their young kids.
00:06:33,764 [Robin Taub]
Right. So like most young kids, mine got money for birthdays and holidays and the tooth fairy, and my husband was a very generous tooth fairy. [laughs] So, you know, people think young kids, they’re not earning money, but they, they do get money and, and that’s what makes you realize that you have to talk to them about what to do with that money, what are the choices? And you can save it, spend it, share it or invest it. And that doesn’t even change as your kids get older. Those choices will remain the same. It’s just the nuances and the sophistication and the specifics that, that evolve as your kids get older. So when my kids were younger and they were getting money for things like that, we would talk about them putting some in their piggybank. Uh, we would talk about them spending some on things that they wanted, and often if we were out and they wanted a toy or something like that and I wanted them to, you know, to think long and hard about whether they really needed it or not, or how badly they wanted it, I would tell them to use their allowance money or their, their own money. And then they were also, um, going to a school that was collecting for charity on Fridays, so I remember sending them to school with, like … In Canada, we have dollar coins and $2 coins, loonies and toonies we call them. So I remember sending them to school with loonies and toonies to put in the box to go to char- to- towards charity. And I don’t remember talking too much about investing to them. That really probably started when they were a little bit older, like 12, 13. So those were the kind of things. And now they have this, I wish I had it on me, um, this multi-slotted piggybank. I don’t know if you’ve seen them, but they have four slots for-
00:08:20,304 [John Lanza]
Sure
00:08:20,404 [Robin Taub]
… save, spend, share and invest. So that’s like a great, great tool I always recommend for young kids.
00:08:26,044 [John Lanza]
Yeah. That’s the, uh, the money savvy pig.
00:08:28,204 [Robin Taub]
That’s it.
00:08:28,564 [John Lanza]
That’s the, uh … Yes. Excellent. Um, so you brought up … First of all, I knew of the loonie, ’cause I actually-
00:08:36,734 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]
00:08:36,734 [John Lanza]
… when I was younger I took a trip across … When I came out to LA back in the early 90s, uh, my, the friend I was going with had already done the United States, so he’s like, “I don’t wanna do the United States again,” so we went across Canada.
00:08:49,564 [Robin Taub]
Oh, you drove across… Oh, from East to West in Can-
00:08:52,424 [John Lanza]
Yeah. We t-
00:08:52,504 [Robin Taub]
Oh, nice
00:08:53,024 [John Lanza]
… we took a one all the way across-
00:08:54,244 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:08:54,644 [John Lanza]
… which is, uh, was great because I have such familiarity with Canada now, at least, uh … But, uh, so we, we saw the loonie, um, ’cause, uh, you know, we got, uh, I, I remember that and that has a loon on the back.
00:09:06,024 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, that’s true.
00:09:06,774 [John Lanza]
But a toonie-
00:09:07,264 [Robin Taub]
Yes
00:09:07,274 [John Lanza]
… what is on the toonie? What’s on the toonie?
00:09:08,884 [Robin Taub]
Um, oh, I h- I would have to run upstairs and get my wallet.
00:09:12,504 [John Lanza]
[laughs]
00:09:12,514 [Robin Taub]
But it looks different. It’s-
00:09:14,304 [John Lanza]
Okay.
00:09:14,344 [Robin Taub]
Instead of being just brass looking like the loonie, it’s, it’s like nickel and with a brass center.
00:09:21,264 [John Lanza]
Oh, like a euro. Okay, like the euro
00:09:22,804 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. Well, it’s not, there’s no hole or anything but yeah, it’s like a two-toned coin.
00:09:27,354 [John Lanza]
Okay.
00:09:27,364 [Robin Taub]
It’s very cool. We used to have a $2 bill and they got rid of it and they replaced it with this toonie, but I’ll have to get back to you as to what’s on it. That’s a good question.
00:09:33,964 [John Lanza]
Okay.
00:09:34,424 [Robin Taub]
But also brings up, like, kids find these coins curia, uh, interesting and our money is also, our paper money, our polymer money is very different-
00:09:44,304 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:09:44,384 [Robin Taub]
… from US money. It’s not just that color of money green. We have different colors for different bills. Like the five is blue and the pink is actually a vertical bill, it’s purple. Um, so-
00:09:55,384 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:09:55,394 [Robin Taub]
… and our coins have, um, interesting, like geographical sites in Canada and significant things like beavers and loons and stuff. So-
00:10:05,064 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:10:05,184 [Robin Taub]
… it’s a great way to talk to your kids a, a little bit about Canadian history or geography as a p- and in addition to money.
00:10:12,024 [John Lanza]
Yeah. We have the history on ours but our money is so boring. [laughs]
00:10:17,084 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. It is.
00:10:18,744 [John Lanza]
Really. [laughs]
00:10:19,204 [Robin Taub]
Honestly, it is.
00:10:19,924 [John Lanza]
You go any, to any other country, you’re like, “What? All this color on the bills is so wonderful.”
00:10:24,793 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:10:24,804 [John Lanza]
I mean, they’ve, they’ve incr- you know, they’ve made some changes to, you know, mainly for a confi- uh, for, uh, keeping people from, um, uh, copying the money, but it’s-
00:10:37,304 [Robin Taub]
Yes
00:10:37,414 [John Lanza]
… really, uh…
00:10:38,144 [Robin Taub]
For counterfeiting.
00:10:38,944 [John Lanza]
It’s, they’re still … Yeah, counterfeiting, I couldn’t remember the other thing.
00:10:42,223 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:43,104 [John Lanza]
Uh, it’s, they’re st- it’s still pretty weak, uh, our money. Okay, so I wanna ask you-
00:10:48,124 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:10:48,244 [John Lanza]
… um, you know, we … One of the things that we don’t talk enough about on this show, and I know you can talk about, is the share jar. You, I think you call it the giving jar. Uh, share jar.
00:11:00,194 [Robin Taub]
Uh, I, I say also share or donate, yes.
00:11:02,483 [John Lanza]
Share, okay. So the reason I like to talk about the share jar, and I wanna start, I wanna do that early, ’cause sometimes I forget about it and we don’t get to it. So, is that, it’s the most … It’s, it’s an easy jar to forget about.
00:11:14,784 [Robin Taub]
I know.
00:11:15,194 [John Lanza]
And the reason that it’s easy to forget a- right, it could, because, you know, kids are always gonna be wanting to spend money-
00:11:20,223 [Robin Taub]
Gimme, gimme
00:11:20,804 [John Lanza]
… and then they’re saving for goals and that’s, that’s something that they want also. And the share jar can be forgotten. So, I’m always looking. Do you have any good pointers for how to keep the share jar top of mind, how to use it effectively? Any thoughts you have on the share jar would be really helpful, I think, to, to me-
00:11:42,104 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]
00:11:42,114 [John Lanza]
… and to other parents.
00:11:43,804 [Robin Taub]
Definitely. And it goes back to the family values. So what are the things that are most important to you as a family? Like, what do you hold dear? What are you willing to take a stand for? And many families feel that giving back and contributing to the community that they live in is really important. It, it could just be, um, community stuff or it could be religious. Um, you know, I was telling you about my kids, they went to, like, a Hebrew day school so it was, in that case, um, related to, to Jewish charities. Um, but you know, it could be … different for every family. So knowing what your values are and, and trying to instill those values in your children, so if they know that giving back and philanthropy or charity is an important family value, then they will absorb that.
00:12:33,952 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:12:34,072 [Robin Taub]
Another reason that it’s so important and unfortunately overlooked is because it can really help deal with an attitude of entitlement. So getting your kids involved in sharing or giving back or a community project or a school fundraiser really helps put th- put things in perspective and shows them that not everyone lives the way they do. And it will teach them to be a little more grateful and appreciative of what they had. And having that gratitude practice is so important. And, you know, how can you enact that? Well, you could just have a dinner conversation once a week where you … everyone shares one, one small win or highlight of their week that they’re grateful for, or something more formal like a gratitude journal.
00:13:19,772 [John Lanza]
That’s good. And it’s, it’s good to, uh, start those things early with the kids-
00:13:24,912 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:13:25,132 [John Lanza]
… because, you know, I know anything you try to, uh, incorporate with the kids in their teen years is met with more resistance. Whereas-
00:13:32,752 [Robin Taub]
Right
00:13:32,932 [John Lanza]
… if it’s something you’ve already incorporated-
00:13:34,712 [Robin Taub]
You’ve always done, yeah
00:13:36,792 [John Lanza]
… yeah, they may roll their eyes, but they realize, “Oh, this is what we do as the family-“
00:13:41,532 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:13:41,542 [John Lanza]
… “is this kind of thing.”
00:13:42,892 [Robin Taub]
My daughter and I, we used to volunteer, uh, at a place called Soup Sisters in Toronto, where we would, uh, do it with other mother-daughter combos and we would cook soup for families living in shel- shelters, like women and children living in shelters. And I’ve done some stuff with my niece where we go for like … You know, Terry Fox was a big Canadian figure, and there’s a … every year in September, there’s fundraiser for cancer. It’s, it’s usually a fun run or a walk. So we’ve done those things together. So yeah, you’re right, it becomes a normalized family activity, and it’s just a nice way to spend time with your kids doing something that makes you feel good.
00:14:21,372 [John Lanza]
Terry Fox, he was the runner, right? That was …
00:14:24,252 [Robin Taub]
Yes. He lost, uh, like part of his leg to cancer and he attempted to run across Canada.
00:14:30,102 [John Lanza]
Oh.
00:14:30,112 [Robin Taub]
Like the distance you drove, he attempted to run across.
00:14:33,412 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:14:33,552 [Robin Taub]
Unfortunately, had to cut it short ’cause he wasn’t well.
00:14:36,602 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:14:36,612 [Robin Taub]
But he almost made it. It was quite an … it’s an amazing story and it, it … he … in his name a t- a lot of money has been raised for cancer.
00:14:44,832 [John Lanza]
Yeah, that’s fantastic.
00:14:46,012 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:14:47,672 [John Lanza]
Okay, so we’re bouncing around a little bit, but I want to … in your book you say, “Although apps can be great tools …” So we’re talking about these apps, there’s lots of apps out there that, uh, help parents, um, get their kids used to digital money.
00:15:03,132 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.
00:15:03,572 [John Lanza]
And you say, “Although these apps, um, can be great tools, they are no substitute for parental guidance and ongoing discussions with your kids about money.” And all I have to say to that was bravo. I wrote that in the book.
00:15:16,992 [Robin Taub]
Oh, thanks.
00:15:17,402 [John Lanza]
I said, “Bravo!”
00:15:18,192 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]
00:15:18,792 [John Lanza]
Because many of these apps are claiming that they teach financial literacy when in reality they don’t teach anything. They’re neither good nor bad on that level, they’re just, they’re a tool-
00:15:31,712 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm
00:15:32,212 [John Lanza]
… in our toolbox, right? So
00:15:34,992 [John Lanza]
can you speak to that? In a cash-free world, like how do we … there’s … what issues exist in the cash-free world that we-
00:15:43,072 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm
00:15:43,242 [John Lanza]
… and the dangers that we have to deal with? And how do we get those across to our kids? How do we teach our kids about money? And how do we use these cards in an effective way?
00:15:53,492 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. So I would say that, you know, technology and innovation and this mo- movement away from cash towards mobile and digital money, uh, it comes with a lot of great things. Like this innovation makes things so much more efficient and easy and frictionless. So, there’s less friction or barriers or things impeding your ability to spend. But sometimes the ability to save easily or invest easily, it’s not quite equal. So the same … uh, there’s still some friction on that side, in other words. So when we spend money cash and we hand it over to someone, you actually feel the pain of loss. Like, there’s a much more visceral, uh, feeling that you’ve departed with your money. And you don’t seem to ha- you know, we don’t … we lose that when we’re tapping and we’re just using plastic and our phone. So you’re trying to bring that sensation back and some of that friction back and some of that awareness back into your spending. And again, the technology has made it easy for it to be frictionless, but you can also use the technology to help, help make it feel real again. And that’s by setting those alerts and notifications. So I know I use it with my bank. Um, there’s a built-in, uh, tool within my mobile banking and I’ve set up alerts every time I use my debit or credit card. And I wear normally an Apple Watch, so I get like a … almost like a little Pavlovian shock [laughs] on my wrist and I am reminded that I have just spent money. So it definitely feels more real. And, you know, I think for our kids, we want them to understand when they’ve actually spent money. Because if they’re just using our money or doing di- things digitally where it’s going to our credit cards, they don’t understand that.
00:17:50,842 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:17:50,872 [Robin Taub]
It’s like it’s not real to them.
00:17:53,831 [John Lanza]
Yeah. You know, one of the things we do ’cause we do use … and I, I, I, I want to clarify. It said … I was talking about apps and then I said cards. What I mean are the apps that are tied to cards.
00:18:04,831 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.
00:18:04,862 [John Lanza]
So it’s a debit card and then there’s an app, and the parent-
00:18:07,362 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:18:07,452 [John Lanza]
… can kind of-
00:18:08,772 [Robin Taub]
Set-
00:18:08,782 [John Lanza]
… see what’s happening.
00:18:09,892 [Robin Taub]
Right.
00:18:10,132 [John Lanza]
Yeah. These are-
00:18:10,702 [Robin Taub]
Parameters and-
00:18:11,452 [John Lanza]
… cards like FamZoo and Current and Greenlight.
00:18:14,432 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:18:14,972 [John Lanza]
And, um, and there’s a huge positive to those, uh … uh, you know, and because the, the beautiful, uh, part about it is as a parent, uh, it’s much easier. The allowance gets automatically distributed. Um, you don’t … can’t forget about it. And-
00:18:29,187 [Robin Taub]
Right
00:18:29,238 [John Lanza]
… then your kids are empowered to, to, to go out on their own and use digital money, and that’s really important. Um, so … And, and that’s … Uh, that’s one of the reasons I like, you know, um, you know Bill Dwight from FamZoo.
00:18:43,748 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm, FamZoo. Yeah.
00:18:44,447 [John Lanza]
Um, ’cause we were on that panel together.
00:18:46,628 [Robin Taub]
Correct.
00:18:47,148 [John Lanza]
And what I like about his approach is he really is, you know, he’s … He is focused on making sure that it’s there to be used as effe- as a, as effective as a tool as possible.
00:19:00,548 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.
00:19:00,618 [John Lanza]
That’s what we’re trying to do, is make sure that it’s a-
00:19:02,947 [Robin Taub]
It’s a learning-
00:19:03,468 [John Lanza]
… it’s an effective tool. Yeah, that it’s a learning tool. We give our kids an enhanced interest so that they can actually make some money by saving some money, and try to remind them about that interest from time to time so that it keeps it top of mind for them and they continue saving. Um, because the reality is that, um, you know, interest rates in savings accounts are just way too low-
00:19:30,528 [Robin Taub]
N- Negative two, yeah
00:19:31,268 [John Lanza]
… now, yeah, to, to, to, to get that point across that saving can be a powerful-
00:19:36,048 [Robin Taub]
I know
00:19:36,868 [John Lanza]
… um, tool. I mean, you can get that point across in terms of saving for goals, but in terms of growing your money-
00:19:42,187 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:19:42,398 [John Lanza]
… in a savings account, it’s tough. Like, uh, do you have any-
00:19:45,978 [Robin Taub]
We-
00:19:45,978 [John Lanza]
… uh, any thoughts on that?
00:19:47,388 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, I mean, especially like youth accounts, which are designed for kids, young savers. I mean, they have no, no fees or very low fees, but they also really don’t pay very much interest. So, I think the next step would be to introduce, introduce a guaranteed inve- eh, a guaranteed investment certificate or term deposit where they are actually earning like a round number [laughs] like a whole, a whole integer, like two or 3%, depending how long they lock it in.
00:20:13,898 [John Lanza]
[laughs].
00:20:14,488 [Robin Taub]
And explaining that, you know, the fact that you don’t have access to your money for a year or two years or three years means you earn more interest. And just using that as a teachable moment to talk about earning interest ’cause yeah, they’re, they’re gonna get frustrated and, and, and that they’ll get back more than what they put in when this thing matures, because they will … might get frustrated with just an, an account. Like a youth account is really just for spending, honestly. And I feel like with COVID too, I mean, I know in Canada many stores stopped taking cash. There was a time we thought that the virus was carried on surfaces and a lot of tweens, let’s say, uh, nine to 12-year-olds had to start using their debit cards if they were out and about buying things. So, you can’t ignore the reality that we’re using cash less and less. So, these tools are inevitable, so you might as well harness them. And like you said, a lot of parents either forget to give their kids an allowance, they don’t have cash around, and then it gets kinda awkward, your kids are like, “You owe me money.” [laughs] And it’s just easier to take advantage of these tools. Like, I know I wouldn’t … I never really wanna go into a physical branch if I don’t have to, if I can do it, eh, from my phone or computer, so it’s the same thing.
00:21:27,068 [John Lanza]
Right. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
00:21:29,697 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:21:29,708 [John Lanza]
While we’re s- while we’re on the li- while we’re on the subject of cards, um-
00:21:33,868 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:21:34,548 [John Lanza]
… well, this, uh, this, this pertains more to, to credit cards, but one of the things I like, and we did talk about this last time-
00:21:41,978 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm
00:21:42,178 [John Lanza]
… but I thought this was a very good point and I wanna bring it up again, which is that you talk about the importance … Everybody talks about the importance of compounding-
00:21:50,188 [Robin Taub]
Yes
00:21:50,318 [John Lanza]
… as something that’s a benefit. But you talk about it as a serious potential danger, and I think that perspective is useful, so I’d like you to elaborate on that as well, because, you know, compounding is … it’s the, it’s the, what is it-
00:22:03,428 [Robin Taub]
Eighth wonder
00:22:04,058 [John Lanza]
Eighth wonder of the world? Yeah, okay. [laughs]
00:22:05,467 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, “The eighth wonder of the world,” says Albert Einstein. And it is, but the second half of that sentence, which often doesn’t get quoted is that, “He who understands it, earns it, he who doesn’t, pays it.” So that’s what you have to understand.
00:22:20,488 [John Lanza]
Ah.
00:22:20,888 [Robin Taub]
It’s a, it’s a double-edged sword. So, it works great for you if you’re a saver and an investor, but if you have to borrow money it can work just as hard against you. So, just even explaining that to your kids in simple terms, you know, once … when they open their bank account and what interest is and why they’re earning it, you can explain. I mean, if you, if you are comfortable to, you could talk about your mortgage on your house, like what that is, that is a loan that you’ve had to, to take out in order to buy such a big, expensive purchase. So … But you have to pay interest ’cause you’ve borrowed money from the bank. So yeah, it is one of those double-edged swords.
00:22:59,408 [John Lanza]
Yeah. It’s a g- it’s … It was a good point. It’s a good reminder to-
00:23:02,628 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:23:03,188 [John Lanza]
… uh, to warn kids of the, uh, that, uh, the compounding can come and bite you on the butt. And thank you. I d- I didn’t realize there was a second part [laughs] of that quote.
00:23:10,947 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, I know, I know. You never hear it.
00:23:14,248 [John Lanza]
That’s great. I like that. So in the book, you also say, “When kids are spending their own money-“
00:23:20,668 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm
00:23:20,828 [John Lanza]
… you know, even if you give it to them as an allowance, so that would be considered their own money-
00:23:24,708 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm. I … Yes
00:23:25,888 [John Lanza]
… um, they … Yes, so th- they tend to think a lot longer and harder about a potential purchase, whether they really need it or just want it. So I just wanted you to elaborate a little bit more on this.
00:23:36,388 [Robin Taub]
That’s directly out of, you know, b- my experiences with my own kids. And I just remember, if we were at a store and there was something that they wanted and I said, “Okay, you can have it, but you have to use your own money,” there would always be a little more deliberation like, “Okay, wait, let me think about it.” As opposed to if I was just buying it for them, they wouldn’t think twice about it. And sometimes I used to say to them like, “Remember the last time we were in this store?” ‘Cause it would usually happen we’d be shopping for a birthday present for somebody. They went to a lot of birthday parties when they were little. And when we’re there, they’re like, they wanted this and they wanted that. And I would go, “Remember the last thing you had to have that you made me buy you? Like, where is that now in the house? Could you even find it?”
00:24:18,038 [John Lanza]
[laughs].
00:24:18,088 [Robin Taub]
So I just find they will take more ownership when they have to use their own money and they will be more mindful and deliberate … about whether they really want it or not. And then what I would even say further is that once they’re working and they’re actually working for that money, it’s not an allowance, but they have a- a part-time job, or they’re babysitting, or they, you know, have an after-school job, then they really get it. [laughs] Because they have to work hard for that. Every hour they have to work, you, they know what- what they’re paid and then they know what- what they might want to spend and they can make that connection.
00:24:54,124 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah, it’s definitely that transition to work, which my kids-
00:24:58,063 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:24:58,234 [John Lanza]
… made this year, it really does make a- a big difference. And they, and they really, and they value that money more than the money that they would get, uh, from an allowance. And well they should. Like, that’s exactly the- the whole point.
00:25:11,513 [Robin Taub]
The point.
00:25:11,563 [John Lanza]
You earn this money. Yeah, you just put that time in. And that’s that, there’s just another lesson that’s part of the- the whole process, right?
00:25:20,484 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, it just gets the wheels turning. It gets them thinking in that way that, “Okay, if I spend it on this, I won’t have it anymore for something else.” Whereas if you are buying it, it just feels like this infinite, unending, never-ending pool of money. And it never … In reality, it never is that.
00:25:41,004 [John Lanza]
Yeah. In fact, uh, this was something that, uh, Kelsa Dickey brought this up on one of the podcasts when I talked to her. She’s a money coach and she said-
00:25:50,063 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm
00:25:50,073 [John Lanza]
… is like, you know, the- the thing about an allowance is that as your kids get older, if you give them a larger allowance, you probably are gonna be spending-
00:26:00,004 [Robin Taub]
Right
00:26:00,244 [John Lanza]
… if you give them an allowance and give them responsibility, you’re gonna spend … If- if you put it … If you’re a budgeter and you have it as a line item, it’s probably gonna be a, it’s gonna be a less, a less costly line item if you give it to your kids as an allowance, right?
00:26:12,684 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.
00:26:13,214 [John Lanza]
Because they are take, they take more control over it, and I thought that was a, that was a good perspective on-
00:26:18,043 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:26:18,244 [John Lanza]
… budgeters.
00:26:19,024 [Robin Taub]
It’s money you’re gonna spend anyway or that will be spent. And you’re right, it probably in the long run will be less if they have ownership over it, when … It just doesn’t count when they’re spending someone else’s money.
00:26:29,724 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Okay, so you talk a lot about budgeting. So now I wanna a- so now you come from a very, like, specialized family. So your- your husband’s a CPA.
00:26:40,944 [Robin Taub]
Yep. [laughs]
00:26:41,464 [John Lanza]
You’re a CPA. Okay, so the question I have is, is there room for a different approach to money management other than budgeting? Since the majority … ‘Cause here’s the thing, you always hear about it, like everybody out there is like, “Budget, budget, budget.”
00:26:56,744 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:26:56,884 [John Lanza]
Every time I talk to parents, nobody’s … Not nobody, but so few people are budgeting, right? So, but not all these people are, you know, in the financial doldrums. So-
00:27:06,944 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:27:08,264 [John Lanza]
And- and- and so I wanted your perspective on budgeting. I also wanted to know, if you’re not a budgeter, should you try and teach your kids to budget or, like, how do we deal with this whole world?
00:27:20,404 [Robin Taub]
Okay, so-
00:27:21,343 [John Lanza]
Uh, when- when we’re not CPAs.
00:27:22,944 [Robin Taub]
I know. Well, it’s interesting that you brought this up today ’cause there was just a survey that was released today in Canada by TD Bank, which is one of our big banks, and it’s showing that 45% of Canadian parents surveyed don’t have a household budget. So almost half don’t have one. And okay, so yeah, it is hard for me as someone who’s trained as an accountant to keep track of numbers, that was literally my job for a long time, to not think that way. And it- it really is in the bones. Like, I joke around ’cause I don’t practice and I haven’t for a long time, but it’s like, you can take the girl out of accounting but you can’t take accounting out of the girl. And I, like, always catch, like, financial mistakes, like, ’cause I used to be an auditor. Like, it’s crazy. But-
00:28:08,924 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:28:09,293 [Robin Taub]
… I just honestly … So trying to not have that, like, taking a beginner’s mindset, like, if I didn’t have that training, I just feel like you need to understand what’s coming in and what’s going out. I don’t know how you can function without understanding that because it’s just so hard to plan, to know where you wanna go, to figure out if you can afford things, to have the life you want, you know, to li- live the way you want and have the things and do the things you want. I feel like you can call it a spending plan, you can call it a non-budget. Like, I’ve heard everything.
00:28:45,184 [John Lanza]
[laughs]
00:28:45,822 [Robin Taub]
I don’t think you … You don’t need to s- It doesn’t have to be, like, an Excel spreadsheet if that’s not your thing. Um, again, that’s something that I’m very comfortable with, but I c- I can totally understand why some people don’t want to use that. But again, it goes back to the tools that are available. And now, um, like, at least in Canada, all the big banks have these tracking tools and budgeting tools built into mobile banking. So it’s actually quite easy to track your spending and use that to build a budget. And just kind of start with that. You know, see what you’re actually spending, see if it seems reasonable. Keep an eye on it because in real time, you can see when you’re spending, how it compares to budget, how it compares, uh, to previous months. I just don’t know how you would h- uh, you know, just understand where you stand without doing some keeping track.
00:29:42,264 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Well, that makes sense. I guess when I’m, when I’m talking about budget, I’m talking about more of the formal budget where you’re saying, “In this month, we’re gonna do this, this and this,” versus I think your- your point is, uh, is well-founded, like you- you do, if you’re not doing that, you certainly have to go through all your expenses. Which is even more important today because there’s so many of these-
00:30:04,623 [Robin Taub]
Subscription
00:30:05,213 [John Lanza]
… um, cer- subscription services-
00:30:07,274 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:30:07,274 [John Lanza]
… which are, you know, freemium.
00:30:09,444 [Robin Taub]
I know.
00:30:09,864 [John Lanza]
Um, that gets, they- they hook you and-
00:30:12,083 [Robin Taub]
Subscription creep, it’s called.
00:30:14,484 [John Lanza]
Yes.
00:30:14,904 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:30:15,344 [John Lanza]
Exactly. [laughs]
00:30:16,583 [Robin Taub]
So-
00:30:16,704 [John Lanza]
And it’s easy to get caught up in those.
00:30:18,704 [Robin Taub]
Look, I hear what you’re saying, like, and if it’s something that seems like, that, something you’re dreading and you hate doing, you’re not gonna do it realistically. Um … And also, like, it can be gran- too granular sometimes. It’s like, “Oh my God, why did I go over by this this month in this category?” Kinda maybe ’cause you won’t … You’ll be under next month in the same category. Like, I bought a lotta household cleaning products this month, and I won’t spend, you know … So you can’t go crazy over every little deviation, but I think as a rule, maybe you know where you have problem areas where you tend to spend too much. Maybe it’s on food, maybe it’s on entertainment. It … You know, every family will be different, but maybe just keeping an eye on those problem areas and making sure you ha- like, you’re covering your needs. Like, you have enough money for the basics, you know, food and shelter and utilities and car payments and all that kinda stuff. Housing, like that stuff. And then once that’s co- Like, you do wanna know what those things cost, and they’re easier to track ’cause they’re pretty much fixed. You know, those … You know, your overhead. So just having an idea of what’s going out for that. You know what you’re making, especially if you’re employed, you know what your salary is, and then you have to kinda watch the discretionary stuff. That’s how I would approach it if I didn’t wanna, like,
00:31:41,724 [Robin Taub]
go, you know, really granularly into, like, a line-by-line spreadsheet. Does that s- seem reasonable, do you think, to the non-accountant?
00:31:51,424 [John Lanza]
Yeah, what I like about that is, uh, that you, you addressed the key point, which is that [laughs] you just … There’s, there is no way to exist without knowing. I, I just wrote this blog post, uh, inspired by my late stepfather, he used to call them gazintas and-
00:32:09,184 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]
00:32:09,194 [John Lanza]
… gazoutas, right? And I think it came, I think it was from the Beve- Beverly Hillb- Hillbillies, you know, it was like you have to know wha-
00:32:14,104 [Robin Taub]
It sounds like Yiddish. That’s Yiddish.
00:32:16,604 [John Lanza]
Yeah, it does, it does sound-
00:32:18,064 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:32:18,154 [John Lanza]
… Yiddish.
00:32:18,344 [Robin Taub]
Gazinta is good. And what was the other one?
00:32:21,584 [John Lanza]
Yeah, like, it … So gazintas are things that, that … what goes into your account.
00:32:26,244 [Robin Taub]
Oh, that’s funny.
00:32:27,474 [John Lanza]
And what’s gaz- gazouta is what’s goes out, goes outta your account.
00:32:30,134 [Robin Taub]
So it’s a, a joke, but it’s supposed to sound like Yiddish.
00:32:33,164 [John Lanza]
Yes, exactly. So it’s like-
00:32:34,264 [Robin Taub]
Or German or something. Oh, that’s funny.
00:32:36,144 [John Lanza]
Yeah. So as long as your gazintas are more than your gazoutas-
00:32:40,304 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:32:40,314 [John Lanza]
… you’re okay, right? Um, and-
00:32:42,424 [Robin Taub]
I think most pe-
00:32:42,874 [John Lanza]
… that’s what you’re saying, right?
00:32:43,524 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, and I think most people have a gut feeling about it. They know.
00:32:47,924 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:32:48,244 [Robin Taub]
They know if, uh, every month there’s not quite enough money or if there’s extra. Like, I think about my kids, and I know that even … They have a fairly good sense. You know, they just watch their balance. You know, they can see their credit card balance, they can see their debit card, you know, their checking account balance, and they, they know what goes in and out, and they have a sense of it, even if they’re not, let’s say, formally writing out a budget. Um, but you just have to pay attention. You do have to look, and I think f- when people get into trouble, at some point they don’t even wanna look.
00:33:22,684 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:33:23,344 [Robin Taub]
And it just makes … And it just becomes a vicious cycle, unfortunately.
00:33:27,684 [John Lanza]
Yeah. No, that, that makes sense. My … You know, the … I’ve always said with my, um, kids, like the things that, the, the, um, the traits that drive you crazy are the traits that are … could also be really beneficial to them. And, uh, my older daughter’s very intense, uh, and, and so … In a, in a good way, and, and … but that … and on the money side, that’s a, that’s a positive because-
00:33:50,654 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:33:51,264 [John Lanza]
… you know, if, if, if there is a transfer that sh- [laughs] she’s wondering about or if she’s waiting on us to reimburse her for something-
00:33:58,304 [Robin Taub]
You’ll know
00:33:59,764 [John Lanza]
… y- you’re gonna know-
00:34:00,804 [Robin Taub]
I know
00:34:01,304 [John Lanza]
… like, every five minutes until it’s- [laughs]
00:34:04,584 [Robin Taub]
I know, yeah
00:34:05,774 [John Lanza]
… until everything’s reconciled, so …
00:34:07,604 [Robin Taub]
I get ya.
00:34:08,254 [John Lanza]
Um-
00:34:08,304 [Robin Taub]
I have one like that.
00:34:09,944 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:34:09,964 [Robin Taub]
And my son was kinda funny. He n- he was never comfortable, like, having carrying charges on his credit card until the, uh, statement date when it was all due. So he would, like, spend a bunch, pay it off, spend a bunch, pay it off, rather than just, like, letting it accumulate, seeing the statement date, paying it all that day. I don’t know, that was his thing.
00:34:33,104 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah, there’s so much of it is really just, uh, I call… I, I, uh, it’s, uh … It’s, it’s just like doing things so that you can sleep at night, you know?
00:34:40,924 [Robin Taub]
Yes.
00:34:41,584 [John Lanza]
I don’t know if you’ve read, uh, Morgan Housel’s book, The Psychology of Money. Have you … read that?
00:34:46,384 [Robin Taub]
I have it on my nightstand. I’ve heard so many good things about it. I can’t wait-
00:34:52,134 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:34:52,134 [Robin Taub]
… to get into it.
00:34:53,984 [John Lanza]
Well, it’s a really good book. Um, what I like is in the 20th chapter of the book is … uh, and it’s, and it’s, and it’s short. Like, your book is … it’s short-
00:35:02,544 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:35:02,744 [John Lanza]
… consumable.
00:35:03,644 [Robin Taub]
Okay.
00:35:03,934 [John Lanza]
You know, it’s like-
00:35:04,274 [Robin Taub]
Good
00:35:04,274 [John Lanza]
… it’s made for parents, right? So-
00:35:05,564 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. Busy parents
00:35:06,934 [John Lanza]
… um, Psychology of Money isn’t … Yeah, isn’t-
00:35:08,464 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:35:08,554 [John Lanza]
Yeah, exactly, busy parents. I did the same thing with my book. But, um, Morgan, in the 20th chapter, identifies how he invests his money.
00:35:16,574 [Robin Taub]
Hm.
00:35:16,604 [John Lanza]
And one of the things he says is he paid for his house in cash.
00:35:21,164 [Robin Taub]
Oh.
00:35:21,344 [John Lanza]
And he said … You know, as a money person, he said, “Especially considering the, you know, current cost of money,” it’s, you know, very inexpensive now to, to, um, to, to get money loaned to you. He said it didn’t make sense from … Like, “I wouldn’t necessarily advise someone else.” He said, “But I can sleep well at night because I do not like carrying debt.”
00:35:41,724 [Robin Taub]
Yes.
00:35:41,864 [John Lanza]
And I, I like that perspective. There’s so much, uh, that … You just … You do have to kind of take everybody’s, um, uh, advice with a grain of salt and then put it through your filter and figure out what’s gonna work for you. And that leads me to a question I wanna ask you-
00:35:58,044 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm
00:35:58,084 [John Lanza]
… which is about … You talk about good and … Now that we’re talking about debt, good and bad debt.
00:36:03,564 [Robin Taub]
Okay.
00:36:03,844 [John Lanza]
And, um, I’d like you to just talk a little bit about what you perceive as good and bad debt ’cause I think that’s useful because it’s something that we’re gonna have to pass on to our kids, explain to them what is kind of good debt, what is bad debt.
00:36:15,304 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. So the concept is that good debt is debt that you take on to acquire an asset or an investment or something that has the potential to go up in value. Example being house is like your classic and the mortgage that goes with it. It could be buying a stock, a stock portfolio or an investment portfolio of some kind. Um, and another example would be investing in your education, your child’s education or your own education. So … whether that’s post-secondary education for your kids, uh, just investing in your own personal growth and development. I know personally I took a whole bunch of courses over COVID, uh, to take my speaking and my
00:36:59,108 [Robin Taub]
business to the next level. So, you know, just … And investing that money because, you know, these were i- you know, expensive courses, I sh- I did treat them as an investment. So just having that mindset, and if you have to borrow to make those investments, that’s okay because they should go up in value and you should be able to generate either through your career or your, you know, the ability to pay that debt off within a reasonable period of time. Contrast that to bad debt, which is usually associated with consumer debt. So credit card debt, department store card debt, those types of things.
00:37:36,158 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:36,168 [Robin Taub]
I mean, the big thing now I’m sure you’ve seen, John, are these buy now, pay later
00:37:40,748 [Robin Taub]
apps, these services.
00:37:42,528 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:42,688 [Robin Taub]
So it’s like another sort of way to buy in installments or on credit. Slightly different-
00:37:46,868 [John Lanza]
For sure
00:37:46,878 [Robin Taub]
… but it’s not debt in the same way, but it’s just a way to stretch your payments out over time. But just
00:37:52,328 [Robin Taub]
it can, it can let your spending get ahead of your income, and that’s, I think, the concern with bad debt. Is if you’re buying things on borrowed money and you can’t afford to pay it off immediately on a credit card, let’s say, then you’re carrying that credit card at 20% interest, for example, and it ends up costing you so much more. You know, those are the things you’re better off saving for, having a plan and saving for them, and buying them when you have the money as opposed to just on credit.
00:38:20,668 [John Lanza]
Yeah. That makes sense.
00:38:22,088 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:38:22,938 [John Lanza]
Thank you for that. So, um, a few more questions before we, uh, try our-
00:38:27,718 [Robin Taub]
Yeah] [laughs]
00:38:27,838 [John Lanza]
… quick thoughts, um, my, my new, uh, replacement for the fast and fun round.
00:38:33,058 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]
00:38:33,268 [John Lanza]
So, um, I want to ask you, you talk about the meaning of the word rich.
00:38:38,748 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.
00:38:39,288 [John Lanza]
And I’d like to know how you think about that. I think this is a good word to talk about because it can, you know, it can mean, it can tie to money, it can tie to lifestyle.
00:38:46,728 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:38:47,288 [John Lanza]
But I’d like you to know how you think about that word, uh, because it does feel like a loaded word, particularly-
00:38:53,277 [Robin Taub]
Sure
00:38:53,277 [John Lanza]
… down here in the States.
00:38:54,748 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:38:55,138 [John Lanza]
[laughs]
00:38:55,928 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. So it’s like capital … I mean, we’re capitalists in Canada, but it’s just, it’s on a whole different level, uh, in the US, which I do notice the difference. Um, okay, so here’s how I think of it, and it was actually a colleague of mine, she used to be a wealth manager. She’s recently retired. Her name was Susan Latremoyere, and she wrote this book called The Rich Life, and there was three elements to living a rich life. And this is from her experience managing, you know, money for clients. So it was live well, give back, and leave a legacy. So those were her three cornerstones of, of, of being rich, and-
00:39:37,028 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:39:37,168 [Robin Taub]
… and that she would keep in mind when she advised her clients. And I think that’s, like, a really nice way to look at it because, you know, what … Living well means enjoying your money while you’re alive and having and doing things that bring you pleasure. Uh, giving back, we talked about, that’s the sharing and, uh, being a part of a community and helping others who are less fortunate, and that feels good too. And then leaving a legacy for your children and their children and the generations that follow. So that’s a … I like that definition a lot.
00:40:12,048 [John Lanza]
Yeah. That’s good. Thank you. So, uh, okay, I ha- have to ask you, we, uh, now that we’ve talked about rich, what is the most notable difference, uh, between the way Canadians and Americans deal with or think about money?
00:40:27,548 [Robin Taub]
I would say that
00:40:30,108 [Robin Taub]
I feel like with … In th- in the United States, it’s definitely more of an individualistic society, so you’re really looking out for number one, you’re really, um, kind of focused more, like, on yourself or your family, and there’s just not as many, uh … Like, in Canada, we have universal healthcare, we have subsidized university and things like that, where … so there’s more of a social safety net and, you know, just unemployment insurance and pensions and just things like that. Financial supports for people. And I feel like that is probably the biggest difference, like, that in Canada you can count on some support from the government if you’re, uh, having trouble making ends meet or when you get older. I mean, I’m not saying you’ll live lavishly or
00:41:22,648 [Robin Taub]
in comfort, but I think there is more of that social safety net, that, that floor, uh, that people don’t fall below the cracks or … fall below it or between the cracks. Whereas I feel like it’s just way more, um, like the mar … And also keep in mind that our market i- for everything is a tenth the size of the US, so the population-
00:41:44,278 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:41:44,308 [Robin Taub]
So the market for anything is so much smaller here and there’s way less competition, and some, like, amazing retailers, like Target famously came to Canada and didn’t make it here. Like, it just, it ended up shutting stores and closing up. And …
00:42:01,178 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:42:01,208 [Robin Taub]
Just challenging. It’s a physically large country, distribution’s challenging, and, uh, you know, not a big population spread over large distances. So-
00:42:09,788 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:42:10,288 [Robin Taub]
… like, it’s just … I find, like, when I go to the US, like, uh, like the service in restaurants is, like, amazing. Like, everyone’s on top of it because I just feel like there’s just no option not to be really good because it’s so competitive. So-
00:42:25,188 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Yeah
00:42:25,288 [Robin Taub]
… culturally it’s really different. I, I feel like even in Canada, like, people, they are kind of on their own in terms of, like, saving for retirement. Like, there’s … As I said, there’s government stuff but it’s not that generous, and there’s very few companies have these great pension plans anymore, so you really have to save for your own retirement. But I still feel like there’s more of a social safety net and collectiveness versus US where it’s really, like … you know, I don’t want to pay for that other guy’s healthcare. I just kinda, I wanna look after my own situation. And we’re just used to the fact that we all pay into this universal healthcare, and it’s just the way it is.
00:43:02,040 [John Lanza]
Right. Right.
00:43:03,740 [Robin Taub]
[clears throat]
00:43:03,770 [John Lanza]
Yeah, and the US is, uh, just tr- lurches back and forth trying to figure out what it wants to do on that, uh, in that, on that front. And, um-
00:43:11,880 [Robin Taub]
I’d say we’re closer to the United Kingdom-
00:43:15,640 [John Lanza]
Yeah, something like that
00:43:16,640 [Robin Taub]
… than the US in terms of social safety net and
00:43:21,580 [Robin Taub]
that type of capitalism stuff.
00:43:24,600 [John Lanza]
Yep.
00:43:25,860 [John Lanza]
That, that all makes sense.
00:43:27,580 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.
00:43:28,840 [John Lanza]
Okay, so one, one more question I wanted to ask you-
00:43:31,840 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm
00:43:31,920 [John Lanza]
… which was, in your book you say, uh, “If your kids sense an opportunity-“
00:43:38,020 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]
00:43:38,050 [John Lanza]
“… to get what they want by exploiting the fact that their parents are not on the same page, they will take full advantage.” Now, I highlighted this in the book because I am asked about this all the time. What is your best advice for parents to, to try to align themselves financially, particularly if they come from, you know, really kind of disparate views of money? Any suggestions?
00:44:05,180 [Robin Taub]
I do hear this, and I especially have heard it from parents that are divorced or separated. So now there’s different households with different attitudes toward money, different rules in the house, different means. So it can get confusing. And even within an intact household, you know, parents are individuals and they’re gonna have their own values. It goes back to values again. What’s important to them? Uh, you know, are they inherently savers? Is that just the way they are? Are they the way they’ve always been? Or are they spenders? Do they have more of a, a, like YOLO, you only live once, type of attitude to life and they just want to spend and enjoy? It can be really difficult. And I think, like I have … I’m sure in the book you saw the values validator exercise. So it’s an exercise to help you figure out what your top five values are out of about 20. And I suggest both parents do that exercise. See where there’s overlap and use it as an opportunity to have a conversation where there isn’t overlap. So oh, you’ve listed these things as, let’s say it’s adventure, and is your partner’s top value and yours is security, so those are kind of opposing. So how do you come to a compromise or just trying to get a better understanding of where they’re coming from and why it’s important to them, and then seeing hopefully where you do overlap. Maybe it’s education or family. And then getting your kids to do it as well because they may have their own values and priorities that are slightly different from yours. And it’s just a way to understand where everyone’s coming from and to try to use those values to guide and prioritize financial decisions, to almost act like an invisible framework. It’s like your North Star, like where … You go back to those when you’re trying to figure out, okay, you know, we have to make trade-offs. How do we do that? Or we’re setting goals now. How do we do that?
00:45:59,580 [John Lanza]
Yeah. So that, so yeah, so you’re … [laughs] This all gets back to conversation. So-
00:46:05,180 [Robin Taub]
Yeah
00:46:05,360 [John Lanza]
… I think at the beginning we were thinking the whole time really and talking really conversations you would have with your child and having an open conversation, but not surprisingly, it’s really the same thing with amongst or between the two parents. Or-
00:46:18,180 [Robin Taub]
For sure.
00:46:18,780 [John Lanza]
Um, yeah that makes perfect sense. It’s just that conversation-
00:46:21,849 [Robin Taub]
And, and family conversations too. And it’s not easy. Like I’m not gonna pretend that can be easy because it can really hurt when you see your spouse doing things that are not aligned with your values. Like you do feel that, that. You have that bad feeling inside. So yeah, talking about it and, you know, out of respect, hopefully they don’t just go ahead and do something that you’re not on board with without discussing it with you first, ’cause then, you know, it just can be a little too late, you know? The cat’s out of the bag and it’s hard to take something back. So yeah, try and have a conversation and even if it, if it’s not easy, it’ll be worthwhile.
00:47:02,660 [John Lanza]
Yeah, that makes sense. All right, so we’re gonna try these quick thoughts.
00:47:07,060 [Robin Taub]
Okay.
00:47:07,230 [John Lanza]
This is an experiment and, um, we’ll see if you, uh, are listening and you like the idea, let me know and maybe we’ll try it again. [laughs] If you don’t-
00:47:16,560 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]
00:47:16,590 [John Lanza]
… maybe we won’t. Okay, so I’m gonna throw out a term and you just kind of react to it.
00:47:22,220 [Robin Taub]
Okay.
00:47:22,580 [John Lanza]
And just give me a, just a quick thought on whatever that is. So the first one would be cryptocurrency.
00:47:29,260 [Robin Taub]
I like it. I just checked my Bitcoin account before I got on the show with you, so yes, I’m interested in it, I’m trying to learn as much as I can about it. I attend like webinars and things like that. Um, still a little confusing to me even as an accountant, like the blockchain and all that, but interesting, intrigued by it. And felt like it was risky not to own any of it in my portfolio. Like I felt like I needed a little position.
00:47:57,580 [John Lanza]
Uh, what about your kids? Are they
00:47:59,620 [Robin Taub]
One has, yes.
00:48:01,020 [John Lanza]
Okay.
00:48:01,070 [Robin Taub]
One of them does.
00:48:01,830 [John Lanza]
Okay.
00:48:01,860 [Robin Taub]
And actually he’s supposed to help me set up my cold wallet. Like and it’s still sitting in the cellophane. I gotta rem- Thanks for reminding me. [laughs]
00:48:09,790 [John Lanza]
[laughs]
00:48:10,220 [Robin Taub]
He already set his up.
00:48:12,580 [John Lanza]
Well very good. Okay, how about, uh, I assume that the, there’s … You, the Robinhood app.
00:48:18,640 [Robin Taub]
Okay, so we don’t have that in Canada yet.
00:48:20,980 [John Lanza]
Okay, I was wondering about that.
00:48:22,240 [Robin Taub]
No.
00:48:23,520 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:48:24,070 [Robin Taub]
Um, like God, you couldn’t not hear about that during COVID and these meme stocks. So
00:48:30,440 [Robin Taub]
you know, it’s, it’s interesting the way that these, the model is no fees for, you know, no commissions, no fees. Definitely encouraging people to trade, almost gamifying it. Not so great, like I think if you’re asking about with kids, they would definitely need supervision if they’re gonna be opening an account and using it because it’s really easy to get carried away or make an expensive mistake. And I think it takes away the whole like … what are my goals for this investment portfolio? Like, this, you know, like it seems fun to bet on a stock, but it’s kinda like speculation. It’s not really investing unless you have an investment thesis and you’ve done your analysis and you have, you know, you know what your risk and your time horizon, all those things. So-
00:49:14,488 [John Lanza]
Yeah
00:49:14,668 [Robin Taub]
… be careful.
00:49:16,288 [John Lanza]
[laughs] That, be careful is probably, Th- that, that, that may cover all these quick thoughts.
00:49:22,188 [Robin Taub]
[laughs] Yeah, really, crypto too, for sure. [laughs]
00:49:25,268 [John Lanza]
How about, uh, Venmo?
00:49:27,228 [Robin Taub]
Okay. We don’t have that here either. God-
00:49:29,508 [John Lanza]
Oh, man
00:49:29,648 [Robin Taub]
… I’m like, “You’re Canadian.” Okay, so we have something called Interac e-Transfer, which is the same-
00:49:34,688 [John Lanza]
Oh, okay
00:49:35,168 [Robin Taub]
… from what I know. And, oh, by god, I couldn’t live without it. I use it all the time to transfer money to pay people, reimburse people. Just, I, I’m finding more and more, like, suppliers and vendors are taking it. And, yeah, love it.
00:49:49,468 [John Lanza]
Yep. Got it. Uh, your kids use that too?
00:49:52,788 [Robin Taub]
Yes.
00:49:54,117 [John Lanza]
Got it.
00:49:54,138 [Robin Taub]
And it’s free for most people. Like, not every bank, but most banks have now made it free, so.
00:50:00,088 [John Lanza]
Very good. And then, uh, finally, um, building off of something we talked about the last time, your thoughts on Howard Marks?
00:50:06,888 [Robin Taub]
Oh, my god. [laughs] I am behind on the memos and the podcast. It’s like something I have been meaning to catch up on, but I need to, like, put my thinking cap on when I do that. It’s not just, like, a casual thing I listen to, like, other financial podcasts where I can be doing something else at the same time.
00:50:25,418 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:50:25,438 [Robin Taub]
Like, I sometimes make notes. Like, I take it really seriously. So yeah, I still love Howard Marks and his thinking about investing in the markets, and thank you for [laughs] reminding me about that too.
00:50:36,068 [John Lanza]
Yeah.
00:50:36,088 [Robin Taub]
That and the cold wallet this weekend.
00:50:38,948 [John Lanza]
Well, Robin, this has been terrific. And, um, I want to thank you again for coming on the podcast for our second time.
00:50:45,008 [Robin Taub]
Thank you for having me back. I love coming back.
00:50:47,628 [John Lanza]
In closing, how could people find you on social media and the web?
00:50:52,088 [Robin Taub]
Right. So I’m mostly active on Twitter and LinkedIn at Robin Taub, and it’s Robin with an I and Taub is T-A-U-B. So yeah, find me on social, interact. I’d love to hear from your listeners what’s going on in their financial worlds. Um, and then if you’re interested in the book, I have a website called thewisestinvestment.com, and that has links to where you can buy the book. And, um, I also have on there, um, one of the tools in the book that I mentioned, uh, the values validator. Oh, sorry, no, that’s on my other website. Sorry. This has the role model self-assessment, which we didn’t get to. But I have another website, robintaub.com. That has the values validator. So if you’re curious about this whole values thing, if you go on there, um, you just sign up, you can get that for free. So, maybe that’ll be the beginning to your conversations with your partner, with your kids about money.
00:51:52,128 [John Lanza]
That’s great. Well, fantastic, Robin. This was a lot of fun. Thanks again for coming on the podcast and-
00:51:57,628 [Robin Taub]
My pleasure
00:51:57,777 [John Lanza]
… good luck with, uh, continued success with your book.
00:52:00,968 [Robin Taub]
Thanks so much for having me, John. Thank you. [instrumental music]
00:52:11,408 [John Lanza]
I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Art of Allowance Podcast. Please subscribe to our show and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. This will allow me to have more conversations with money experts and parents, and sometimes both, to get more ideas that can help us all raise more money-smart and money-empowered kids. You can find out all about our movement at themoneymammals.com. The Money Mammals, our program to get your kids excited about money smarts when they’re young, is now a part of our new program for families, The Art of Allowance Project. It also includes Adolescent$ for tweens and teens. You can find out all about this new program on our site, themoneymammals.com. Of course, please consult with a financial or investment professional before engaging in any decisions that might affect your financial wellbeing. And until next time, I wish you and your family well on your own money-smart journey. Thanks for listening.
00:53:20,408 [John Lanza]
[instrumental music]