“Don’t look at that [first] paycheck as your ticket to free spending. […] You should be thinking, ‘Where does this money need to go?’ Not ‘What do I want to do with it?’”
— Cameron Huddleston
During this Art of Allowance Podcast episode, host John Lanza and returning guest Cameron Huddleston discuss the financial challenges faced by recent college graduates and the strategies parents can use to support their children transitioning into adulthood. They cover topics such as drafting a launch contract for monetary support, navigating job searches in a challenging market, establishing a minimum viable money system, understanding credit and obtaining appropriate legal and financial documents. John and Cameron’s conversation emphasizes the need for open communication between parents and adult children regarding financial expectations and responsibilities as well as the importance of teaching money smarts and mindfulness.
Cameron Huddleston is the author of Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances. She is also an award-winning journalist with nearly 25 years of experience writing about personal finance. Her work has appeared in AARP, Kiplinger’s Personal Finance, the Chicago Tribune, Forbes Advisor, Yahoo Finance and many more print and online publications.
Visit our YouTube channel for selected snippets from this and other podcast episodes.
Links (From the Show)
- Connecting with Cameron
- Money-Smart Mentions
Show Notes (Find what’s most interesting to you!)
- Getting reacquainted with Cameron [2:34]
- Drafting a launch contract for recent grads [4:05]
- What if your young adult isn’t bringing in an income? [7:05]
- Setting up a minimum viable money system [10:04]
- The credit card conundrum [13:11]
- The potential perils of co-signing [15:24]
- PSA: You’re allowed to treat your kids differently based on their money personalities. [17:09]
- Job scams to warn recent grads about [20:14]
- Key legal and financial documents you need to have [25:14]
- Cameron’s top-of-mind money concern for her young adult daughter [29:33]
- A bit on the “Huddleston” byline [32:32]
- Should parents prioritize saving for college or saving for retirement? [33:11]
- What should every new grad do with their first paycheck? [34:24]
- The impact of making meals at home [35:48]
- A “balanced” money-smart philosophy [36:41]
- Understanding others’ money mindsets [37:38]
- Keeping in touch with Cameron [39:26]
Click here for the full transcript.
If you liked this episode …
Still having reservations about treating your kids differently based on their financial behaviors? Money maven Bobbi Rebell offers her take: “Equally is not the same as fairly.” Tune in at 46:40 and save this crucial reminder about a 401(k) for when your recent grads land their first jobs.
How can you help young adults protect themselves from online scams? Author and digital literacy advocate Diana Graber shares best practices to secure personal and financial information at the 29:03 mark of her episode. This snippet on addressing “free” online content might also be helpful for recent grads.
Want even more advice on setting up young adults for success? Financial readiness expert Tony Steuer outlines the most important tactical steps new college grads need to take. Listen to his list at 4:43. Then share his thoughts on the “get rich quick” money myth with a young adult in your life.
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Full Transcript
This transcript is from The Art of Allowance Podcast, Episode 83, featuring host John Lanza and guest Cameron Huddleston.
[00:00:00,180] John Lanza: Hello and welcome to Episode 83 of The Art of Allowance Podcast. I’m your host, John Lanza.
[00:00:09,280] Cameron Huddleston: Wow, look at all this money that I can spend. You’re gonna take that, you’re gonna look at that paycheck and figure out where it needs to go. What do you need to pay for, the rent, the cell phone, the car payment, the student loan payment? How much of that paycheck can I afford, again, to have automatically deposited into retirement savings? How much can I afford to have deposited into an emergency fund? Don’t look at that paycheck as your ticket to free spending [laughs] because for some kids, it’s a lot of money.
[00:00:45,660] John Lanza: In this episode, Cameron Huddleston returns to the podcast to discuss the financial challenges faced by recent college graduates and the strategies parents can use to support their children transitioning into adulthood. We both have kids at these ages, and we cover topics such as drafting a launch contract for monetary support, navigating job searches in a challenging market, establishing a minimum viable money system, understanding credit, and obtaining appropriate legal and financial documents. Our conversation emphasizes the need for open communication between parents and adult children regarding financial expectations and responsibilities, as well as the importance of teaching money smarts and mindfulness. Cameron Huddleston is the author of Mom and Dad We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances. She is also an award-winning journalist with nearly 25 years of experience writing about personal finance. Of course, her biggest claim to fame is being on The Art of Allowance Podcast before. But her work has appeared in AARP, Kiplinger’s Personal Finance and the Chicago Tribune, Forbes Advisor, Yahoo Finance, and many more print and online publications. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Cameron Huddleston.
[00:02:23,820] John Lanza: Today, I am talking with Cameron Huddleston. Welcome back to the show, Cameron.
[00:02:29,860] Cameron Huddleston: Thanks so much for having me back on the show.
[00:02:33,880] Cameron Huddleston: Why don’t we just start with you telling us a little bit about yourself? It’s been a little while since you’ve been on the podcast, so reintroduce yourself, Cameron.
[00:02:42,080] Cameron Huddleston: Sure. So I am a longtime personal finance journalist. I’ve been writing about money for more than 20 years. I wrote a book, um, called Mom and Dad We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances. And I have three children, one who just graduated from college, one who’s in college, and then I have a 13-year-old.
[00:03:06,560] John Lanza: That is, uh, quite a brood. You got one more than us. And ours, we have, uh, one that just graduated college, too, which is really what led us to have this conversation. We said, “I think we need to talk a little bit about this,” because we’ve both been talking about money. We’ve, to some extent, been talking about kids and money, and I thought this would be very useful for parents to have this conversation, so we’re gonna dive headlong into this. You know, on the podcast, I always get the chance to talk to money experts and then parents, and the sweet spot is when they’re both and that’s really an exciting opportunity, because then you can share kind of your thoughts on this and, and I’ll… it’ll be a nice back and forth, and hopefully that we’ll find some useful information to share with, uh, the audience in terms of parents trying to figure out what can they do. How can they support their kids as they move into the real world? First question, let’s dive right into it if you’re ready, Cameron.
[00:04:02,300] Cameron Huddleston: I’m ready. Let’s go.
[00:04:03,500] John Lanza: All right. If you were to draft a one-page kind of launch contract for recent college graduates, maybe you’ve done this already, setting shared terms on short-term financial support during that first year post-college, what might you include in that contract?
[00:04:21,200] Cameron Huddleston: Well, the contract would certainly lay out expectations of the parents. If, uh, you have been supporting kids or you’re thinking about providing some financial support for your children as they enter the real world, you need to be specific about the extent of that support you’re gonna provide. And so for example, if the kids are moving back home, that contract needs to spell out the terms of that return to home. You’re living in our house, so I would suggest that you don’t allow them to live
[00:05:00,780] Cameron Huddleston: entirely rent-free. And by rent-free, I don’t necessarily mean that they’re gonna have to pay you $500 a month to live there, but they need to pitch in financially. So maybe you’re not charging them a rent per se, but they’re expected to pay for their own groceries, or perhaps they’re expected to pay for a share of the utilities or the internet, if they’re taking advantage of that. If they’re there without any sort of financial obligation, then there’s no incentive for them to leave the home. And you want your kids to launch. You don’t want them to live in your house forever, and so if they’ve got skin in the game [laughs] and they’re paying, you know, for groceries, utilities, or even if you decide to charge them rent, they have an incentive to move on and find their own place if they- if they’re not living there rent-free. And so certainly there you need to lay out the terms for any sort of living situation. If they are s- living on their own but you’re providing financial support, you need to lay out, again, how much support you’re going to provide for them. Are you going to… help pitch in for the rent? Are you going to let them remain on your cell phone plan? Are you going to pay for their car insurance if you’ve been doing that, or are you gonna pay for the car loan? Be specific about what you will pay and what they will pay and if there are any cutoff points. Like, “I will keep you on your car, on our car insurance until you get your own job,” for example. Or, “I will help you pay for rent for the next six months or for a year.” Be specific so there’s no question in either of your minds as to who’s gonna be paying for what. So that’s, that’s what I would do.
[00:07:03,750] John Lanza: Yeah. What about in a challenging job environment, you know? So, I think one of the difficulties can be that you can set all that up, but if they’re bringing in no income, then they’re gonna have no ability to pay. Hopefully, they will have saved some money some, from some previous jobs or they might have an interim job. But let’s just assume they have, they do not have a job. They’re putting some effort in to looking. You have some evidence that they’re doing that. What do you do then? Because then the best-laid plans for, you know, “Here’s what you owe and here’s… You’re paying your way,” doesn’t matter if they’re not bringing any, in any money, right? Any thoughts on how you address that?
[00:07:46,030] Cameron Huddleston: Yes. So you encourage your children to get a job that is perhaps a part-time job or even a full-time job that’s not in their field of interest. So I’ll use my daughter as an example. She graduated from college in May. Fortunately, she had a part-time job that she was working at while she was in college. She still has that job. She has not landed a job with her ideal career in her field of study yet, but she’s got that money coming in from the part-time job and she is looking for other part-time jobs to fill that monetary gap until she can get the job she really wants. And so, your kids might not be able to find the job they want, but there are jobs out there that they can likely get, like waiting tables, delivering food for DoorDash, or delivering groceries, working in a coffee shop, working on a construction site. There are jobs out there. There are employers trying to hire people and so they might have to get that part-time job or full-time job and look for the job of their dreams in the meantime.
[00:09:07,130] John Lanza: Yeah, I can second that, Cameron. And, you know, it’s always tough because this is just at the beginning of the journey. So, uh, my daughter just graduated and she wanted to be… She wanted a research job. There is a major cutback in funding to research and she started applying to various places and has a job. It looks like a great company and she was able to secure that gig, which is really exciting. But I think your advice is very good, which is just you just gotta open up your opportunities and, and she was doing a service job before that just to kind of bridge the gap. And we didn’t identify exactly what we would cover, but we did say that post-college, things like rent that was covered by the 529, that’s all done. College is finished. We did make it pretty clear that she’s gonna be on her own. Um, and that’s why I asked you the question in terms of the contract. What do you feel is appropriate? But if you had, like, 15 minutes to help a new graduate set up, what would you automate, like accounts and saving splits, credit building, and what kind of, like, subtle frictions might you put in there, say, like alerts or review checkpoints to help instill financial mindfulness?
[00:10:23,430] Cameron Huddleston: I love automation. My husband and I use automation. Otherwise, I think I would forget to pay a lot of bills because, because I do work, because I do have kids. I’m busy and so automating bill payments is a great idea. You know, especially if you are young and just starting out and you’re not used to covering a lot of bills on your own, connecting that bank account, that checking account, you know, with your service provider so that bills are being paid automatically. I think automating savings is a good idea because any money that’s in your account, you’re gonna look at it and think, “Check it out. Look at that money. Look how much I can spend.” And so if, if they are having money automatically deducted from their paycheck and put into a 401[k] or some sort of similar retirement savings account, it’s a great idea. You know, I know a lot of employers now will automatically opt you in. They typically start with a really small percentage deduction from your paycheck, you know, so if your kids can afford it, maybe encouraging them to save more than that automatic amount, which could be just 1%, you know, maybe 5%. You know, so having that conversation with your kids. Let’s look at how much money you’re gonna have coming in, what are your expenses, so that you can figure out how much you can afford to have automatically deducted from that paycheck to put in savings. Again, it’s okay to start small. Better to start with something than nothing. The sooner you start, the easier it is to save because that money is going to grow over time and even small contributions will grow to a big nest egg. You know, you’ve got a long ways to go and so, you know, encouraging them to set up automatic savings. Again, if they can afford to set aside a little each month from that paycheck…… automatically into just a general savings account so they have money for emergency expenses. They can pay for their healthcare deductible. They can pay for their auto insurance deductible. If there’s any sort of car repair that they need, then having that emergency fund is going to give them the cash that they need rather than having to rely on credit cards and getting into debt. You especially don’t wanna take on more debt if you’ve already got student loan debt. So, automating the savings, automating the bill payments, it’s a great, uh, great way to get started when you’re just starting out.
[00:13:10,714] John Lanza: Yeah, what about credit cards, Cameron? Do you have any advice on the credit card front?
[00:13:15,233] Cameron Huddleston: So, when my daughter was heading off to college, we applied to get her a credit card, like a secured credit card, but because she didn’t have a steady stream of income, they wouldn’t even give her that secured credit card. And so what I did at the time, was make her an authorized payer on my credit card. She uses it from time to time, really only to buy gas. If she’s at a gas station where she- there’s no chip card and she doesn’t wanna like stick in her debit card in just to be safe, she doesn’t wanna have to swipe that debit card, so she’ll use the credit card. She lets me know, “Mom, I’m at a gas station. There’s no chip reader. I’ve gotta swipe it. Can I use the credit card?” So she’s very responsible with that. And so now that she’s- she’s had this part-time job for a while, she needs to apply for her own credit card. We’ve talked about that. So she does not have her own credit card yet. I’m not worried about her running up a lot of credit card debt. She is
[00:14:17,634] Cameron Huddleston: incredibly frugal, so she’s not gonna look at a credit card as free money. Y- and I would like to think that I played a role in that sort of mindset.
[00:14:28,934] John Lanza: [laughs]
[00:14:29,513] Cameron Huddleston: You know, she’s- she’s naturally frugal. You know, I look at my middle child, who’s kind of balanced between spender and saver, and my son, who loves to spend my money. So, you know, I tell him, “No, you’ve gotta use your own money.” But, um, you know, my oldest has always been much more of a saver, and so I’m not worried about her getting into trouble with debt. You know, obviously we’ve had some conversations. We’ll have more when she gets that credit card, but she does need to apply for her- her own card. You know, again, if you’ve got a recent grad or a teenager with a credit card, it’s a good idea to have that conversation about minimum payments. You know, they might look at it and say, “Hey, I only owe $20 a month. That’s great. I can afford that.” Well, if you’re not paying the balance off in full, balance is gonna keep growing and growing and growing because of the interest. So that’s a conversation you need to have with your kids.
[00:15:21,554] John Lanza: Yeah, that makes sense. And then that gets into, as I mentioned, you know, they’re g- gonna get their own place. And, you know, the first place they get, almost certainly they’re gonna need to cosign. So, parents are often asked to cosign for things like leases, phones, cars. Like, do you worry- d- are there any big, red flags that you would watch out for? Uh, you know, we had to cosign for, um, our daughter’s first place. Any red flags? I mean, aside from the obvious thing, which is really [laughs] going through the lease with a fine-tooth comb with them.
[00:15:54,093] Cameron Huddleston: Certainly. I think, uh, if your kid
[00:15:57,934] Cameron Huddleston: isn’t currently have a job, and you’re cosigning on a lease, that means you could be on the hook for having to pay for that rent every month. And so, again, it means having a conversation, getting back to that job conversation. You haven’t found the job you want yet, so you’ve got to get another job so that you can pay your rent. It’s really important that you pay your rent on time. And, you know, maybe you have an agreement that you’re pitching in on the rent if that’s what’s comfortable for you, if that w- what’s works for your family’s budget. And so, you know, it’s also like knowing your kid. Is your kid gonna be responsible enough if you’re gonna put your name on the lease, or if you’re gonna put your name on a car loan?
[00:16:47,534] Cameron Huddleston: Hopefully you can trust your kid, but you know your kid best, and so it’s something you need to consider. If you don’t think that you can trust your kid to pay that car loan every month, you don’t want to wreck your own credit rating. So, something to consider for sure.
[00:17:07,833] John Lanza: Yeah, that gets at… ‘Cause you had mentioned two things. You mentioned that, uh, your kids are very different. We have the same thing. I mean, there’s so- there is certainly a component of that that is just plain hardwired. This one issue that parents run into, we all run into this, is we- in the ideal world, we would treat them equally, but it just doesn’t make any sense that you would do that, because, you’re gonna have your- your frugal kid. You’re obviously not gonna have an issue cosigning, and I think we should just give parents permission to treat your kids unfairly. Do you have any thoughts in that area?
[00:17:42,813] Cameron Huddleston: I do agree with you, that sometimes you have to treat your kids differently depending on their situation. It’s funny, because [laughs] my oldest daughter has pointed this out to her younger sister, that she is treated differently, because my oldest daughter says, “Well, you know, I paid my freshman year. I ate in the dining hall, and when I needed to buy my own food, I paid for it with my own money. Mom and Dad are giving you money to buy things.” Well, my oldest daughter, when she was in high school, she- her junior and senior year, she was at this STEM academy-
[00:18:27,914] John Lanza: Mm-hmm
[00:18:28,054] Cameron Huddleston: … at- actually at the university in our town, so she was essentially a high school student and college student all at once.
[00:18:36,594] John Lanza: [laughs]
[00:18:36,833] Cameron Huddleston: She was living on a college campus…. and they gave those kids money. I’m not entirely [laughs] sure, like, how that happened, but they were giving her
[00:18:46,470] Cameron Huddleston: checks, and so she hung on to the money because she was a saver.
[00:18:51,230] John Lanza: Yeah.
[00:18:51,380] Cameron Huddleston: And so in addition to money that she had earned from a job, in addition to graduation gifts, she had a few thousand dollars that she had gotten from the university when she was at the STEM Academy. And so she went into college with a lot more money in her bank account than her younger sister did.
[00:19:13,870] John Lanza: Hm.
[00:19:14,019] Cameron Huddleston: And so she had more cash there, and so… And the thing is too, she didn’t ask us for money. She didn’t ask. Like, she didn’t say, “Hey, I need some money for groceries.” She just went and used the money that she had. My other daughter, because she didn’t have any [laughs] sort of cash reserves or very little, she was asking us for some money, but not a lot. And so my oldest daughter likes to point that out to her younger sister, “Mom and Dad have given you more money, and, well, sometimes just asking can, can end up with, you know, can lead to a little extra cash in your checking account if you need it,” so.
[00:19:48,890] John Lanza: Yeah, we’ve had the same dynamic. It’s, uh, it’s funny because you do have the one kid who asks more and the one kid who doesn’t, and the one who asks more is gonna end up getting some more money, right? That’s just the nature of things. Um, and I, I guess, I said, uh, treat them unfairly. I think you put it better. Treat them differently-
[00:20:05,540] Cameron Huddleston: Differently
[00:20:06,050] John Lanza: … in that case. Yes. [laughs] Fairly is not the way to put that. All right, so recent grads are very attractive targets for fraud, whatever it is, romance scams, phishing, ID theft. I wonder some of the scams that… Have, have you run into issues with scams that they’re likely to encounter? What immediate practical steps should parents and grads put in place on day one? I will say the one thing our older daughter does, she’s always asking. Like, she’ll get a text, she’ll be like, “Is this a scam?” I’m like, “Yep, that’s a scam.” [laughs] ‘Cause this is… Almost always, if you have to ask if it’s a scam, it’s a scam. That’s probably the, the top heuristic, but I’d love your thoughts on, uh, dealing with scams.
[00:20:51,130] Cameron Huddleston: My daughter does the same thing. When she gets a suspicious text, she asks us, which is great. So that’s something that you want to warn your kids about because those text scams are so prevalent. One of the big ones that’s been circulating all summer, it’s, I know it’s gonna continue circulating, it’s those, it’s like a toll road scam, or sometimes it might be-
[00:21:13,030] John Lanza: Yes
[00:21:13,039] Cameron Huddleston: … like a, like you have a, a, a traffic violation. Like, it was initially the toll road scam, and then they shifted to traffic violations, and they’re very specific. They appear to come from the state where-
[00:21:26,050] John Lanza: Yeah
[00:21:26,350] Cameron Huddleston: … you live. You know when you get a toll road scam and it’s from Michigan, and you’re in-
[00:21:31,259] John Lanza: [laughs]
[00:21:31,259] Cameron Huddleston: … Kentucky, and you don’t drive in Michigan, that it’s a scam. But when you get something from saying that it’s from Kentucky and you have a traffic violation, and you need to pay this fee right away, then yes, it seems a lot more realistic. And so she got one of those, and I was like, “No, this is a scam.” A big one though you need to warn your recent grads about are job scams.
[00:21:53,699] John Lanza: Hm.
[00:21:53,710] Cameron Huddleston: Because obviously, they’re on those job sites. They might even see job postings on social media, and so a lot of scammers are even using those legitimate job sites to con people. They will pose… They will either pose as representatives of real companies or they will create fake companies. You know, on social media they might be offering, you know, “Here’s an easy way to make money. Work from home. You know, earn,” whatever, “$60,000 a year. You don’t have to do a lot of work.” And that’s your first key; high pay, not a lot of work-
[00:22:31,470] John Lanza: Not a lot of work
[00:22:31,740] Cameron Huddleston: … it’s a scam, okay? If they’re asking for any sort of fee upfront, you know, “We need you to pay this fee to set up your work-at-home station,” or, “We need you to provide
[00:22:44,630] Cameron Huddleston: your Social Security number and other personal information before you’ve even got the job,” say no. “No, you’re not getting any of this information until you’ve offered me a job, and you need to do a background check. Or not even till you’ve offered me a job, until you’ve hired me.”
[00:23:01,090] John Lanza: Yes.
[00:23:01,210] Cameron Huddleston: Okay? And so warn your kids, “Do not share any personal information during your job search to anyone who asks for it.” That’s a scam. Again, don’t pay any sort of fees upfront. Don’t believe that you’re gonna get paid a lot of money for doing next to nothing. All of these are scams.
[00:23:19,830] John Lanza: Yeah, and our, uh, older daughter ran into that, that same thing, the paying the fee. That’s, that’s the big one. If they’re paying a fee, be very, very skeptical. If they’re trying to collect money from you f- uh, before you are getting paid anything, that’s problematic. I remember [laughs] this… I’m just having this flashback to when I was, I think I was still in college, and I was looking for something to do in the summer. I went to this place, and it was at some little trailer, and I found it in the classifieds. And you go into the trailer, and the guy’s like, “Okay, let’s go out on the road.” And so you get in the car, and we had a bunch of knockoff paintings, like Cézanne and Monets, and you go into other businesses, somewhat clandestinely, put them up. So you’re soliciting in other people’s businesses until they kick you out, and you’re trying to get people to buy these paintings, right? And we actually sold, like, a few of them. Right from the get-go, I’m like, “I just… I, I got in this guy’s car, so I’m like, ‘I just want to be nice and get done with this day and get back to the trailer and get to my car and go home.'” ‘Cause [laughs] immediately I was like, “This [laughs] is such a scary setup,” and I just wanted to smile way, my way through it and get out of the day. And it was enlightening to see that that’s how some people are trying to figure out how to make a living. It was crazy…. and then when you get back, he’s, wants you to pay him for the paintings that you’re gonna go sell, right? And that’s just the way that this, this whole kinda scam worked. But the, I mean, the scam was ultimately not necessarily in the buying of the paintings. It’s just that you’re trying to solicit at other people’s businesses. It was just, [laughs] it was, everything about it was shady. I was happy to just have gotten back home, [laughs] and not had to deal with it. Uh-
[00:25:07,786] Cameron Huddleston: Hey, but it’s a good story, right?
[00:25:10,566] John Lanza: I’d, I had completely forgotten about that til we were just chatting. There’s a lot of focus on money that we’re talking about here. Sometimes kind of legal housekeeping can get overlooked. So if you’re advising a family with a child who’s turning 18, what are the kind of non-negotiable legal or financial documents you’d have them complete? What needs to be done? Any thoughts on that, Cameron?
[00:25:33,005] Cameron Huddleston: Yes. I’m glad you asked this question because once your kids turn 18, you can no longer make medical decisions for them or talk to their doctors for them. And so, you need to make sure that your kids have a, what is either called a healthcare power of attorney document, it’s sometimes called a healthcare proxy or a healthcare surrogate, to name you as their surrogate so that if they are unable to speak for themselves, make medical decisions for themselves, then you can talk to their doctors for them. So, like, heaven forbid your kids are in an accident. You need to talk to the hospital, and, you know, let them know you have input about the type of treatment they’re going to receive. And so, you might not be able to do that, or you might not be able to access their medical records unless you’ve got that document showing that your child named them their, your health, their healthcare surrogate, and then you can, you know, send it to the hospital. Send it to the doctor’s office so that you can get access to their medical information, talk to their doctors for them. This is important. Another document that they should probably have is a power of attorney document naming you as their agent to make financial and legal decisions for them if they are unable to for whatever reason. And so, otherwise, you can’t just simply show up to their bank and say, “Hey, I’m this person’s parent. I need access to the bank account because they’re out of the country and I need to pay a bill for them. So I need access to their account, or I need to sign a check for them.” It doesn’t work that way. You’ve gotta have that document, that legal document showing you that you’ve been named your child’s agent under power of attorney to make financial decisions and transactions for them. So those are two important documents. Will is not as important when you are that young and you don’t have really many [laughs] assets to worry about. Most likely, if your child dies, hopefully not at that young age, terrible to think about, but if something were to happen, they died at a young age, their money in most states will go to parents or their siblings. And so, you know, unless they have really strong opinions about it, will is not at the top of the list, but the power of attorney and that healthcare proxy, healthcare surrogate document. Also, a living will is also called an advance directive. It spells out what sort of end of life medical care they do or do not want. You know, do they wanna be on life support? Again, this should be their decision.
[00:28:15,886] John Lanza: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:15,985] Cameron Huddleston: Not yours. And so, they can spell out their wishes in a living will or advance directive.
[00:28:21,786] John Lanza: Yeah, and I can, we can attest to the healthcare power of attorney because we actually had one signed, couldn’t find it in a medical emergency. It worked out okay, but you wanna make sure that the document is in the doctor’s, uh, like in, in the medical system. That’s really important.
[00:28:39,066] Cameron Huddleston: You need to have the document.
[00:28:40,686] John Lanza: And you, and we-
[00:28:41,466] Cameron Huddleston: Not own it
[00:28:41,586] John Lanza: … need to have the document too, yes.
[00:28:43,245] Cameron Huddleston: You need it.
[00:28:43,255] John Lanza: Yes, no doubt.
[00:28:43,336] Cameron Huddleston: ‘Cause you’re the one who has to show it.
[00:28:45,376] John Lanza: Yes, [laughs]. All right. One question before we get into… I have two kinda questions that are more general questions, and we have our quick, fast, and fun round, but
[00:28:55,186] John Lanza: just what is, what’s the one kind of primary concern that you have for your kid who is, you know, now graduated college? The, like, monetary concern. What is, what’s top of mind for you? Um, I know we talked about automation. I did, I did wanna make the point that, uh, I feel like automation, I don’t know which wonder of the world we’re at. I think compound interest is, and I, I, I think it’s been attributed to Einstein or Buffett that’s like the eighth wonder of the world. I think automation might be the ninth wonder of the world, but automation is one of those incredibly powerful tools. So, not to lead the witness, Cameron, but I’m curious to know, like, as someone who really has thought a lot about this, what, what is kind of one primary concern that you have as they move out into the world from a monetary standpoint?
[00:29:44,366] Cameron Huddleston: Right now, I’m just hoping that my daughter gets a full-time job in, that, that she wants. Not, I’m not talking about the part-time job that she has at the tea shop or having to do Instacart grocery deliveries. I want her to find a job.
[00:30:04,336] John Lanza: Yeah.
[00:30:04,346] Cameron Huddleston: And it’s tough.
[00:30:05,626] John Lanza: Yeah.
[00:30:05,826] Cameron Huddleston: It is tough, and she has limited herself somewhat because she wants to stay where she went to college, and so she’s not looking for jobs all across the country, just in a specific area. And so, you know, her father and I are constantly asking this question, “How many jobs did you apply for today?” My husband’s spending a lot of time on LinkedIn himself, sending her links to jobs that he sees. I know she’s getting tired of it, but, uh, yeah, we really wanna make sure that she is on the ball and applying to as many jobs as she can to increase her chances of getting a job that she wants.
[00:30:43,985] John Lanza: I… Yeah, I f- I feel that. I know how…It is so tough to not be the overbearing parent, and you just are gonna be the overbearing parent till the job comes in. [laughs] That’s difficult for the kids ’cause they’re launching. They- they- they want autonomy as much as you want them to have some autonomy.
[00:31:04,929] Cameron Huddleston: And you want them to feel like their hard work in college paid off, that they-
[00:31:09,320] John Lanza: Yes
[00:31:09,550] Cameron Huddleston: … can get the job they want. And, you know, if, as a parent, if you’ve contributed financially to their college education, then you do wanna see that that, [laughs] that that, that, uh, that investment is paying off.
[00:31:23,810] John Lanza: You know, I think, uh, and- and
[00:31:26,669] John Lanza: now the interesting part is, so- so our daughter does- is- is gonna be starting a- a full-time job, and, uh, I’m actually most interested to see how long it takes her to have that realization that everybody’s making it up as they go along. Just realize, like, you’re gonna go in, you’re gonna be stressed, you’re gonna feel like you don’t know what’s going on, and certainly there are people that are experts in the, in the company, but it’s that realization that happens to you as a, as an adult. You’re like, “Oh, okay, people really are just all trying to figure it out as they go along.” College didn’t train me for a job, it just trained me maybe to think, uh, gave me some specific area that, that I- of study where I- I might have some expertise, but that’s not necessarily what’s needed in this job, right?
[00:32:15,189] Cameron Huddleston: Exactly. I don’t know. I don’t think I figured that out until a couple years ago.
[00:32:21,010] John Lanza: All right, Cameron. Well, this is, that was all really good advice, and I have a few more personal questions for you that I wanna find out. So one is, before we jump into the fast and fun round, what’s an interesting fact about Cameron Huddleston that most people would not guess about Cameron Huddleston?
[00:32:38,570] Cameron Huddleston: Well, my… Huddleston is not my legal last name.
[00:32:43,889] John Lanza: Okay.
[00:32:44,290] Cameron Huddleston: Huddleston is my maiden name, and when I… It was my byline on, when I started writing professionally right outta college, and I didn’t wanna change it.
[00:32:56,449] John Lanza: Hm.
[00:32:56,770] Cameron Huddleston: My married name is Lebedinsky.
[00:33:00,110] John Lanza: Oh.
[00:33:00,230] Cameron Huddleston: My husband is Ukrainian. But Cameron Huddleston I really think sounds a lot better than Cameron Lebedinsky-
[00:33:06,370] John Lanza: [laughs]
[00:33:06,379] Cameron Huddleston: … so I just kept the Cameron Huddleston.
[00:33:09,389] John Lanza: Yes. Good byline. So what’s something about money, ’cause like what gets in your craw? What’s something about money that you believe that most people think is the opposite?
[00:33:21,050] Cameron Huddleston: Well, since we’re talking about kids, there are a lot of people who prioritize saving for their kids’ college education over saving for their own retirement. I had this conversation with someone recently. She’s younger than I am, and I was telling her, “No, no, no, no, no. You need to be focusing on your own retirement first.” Like, you… If your kids have to take out student loans, I know it’s not ideal, but they have a lot more time to pay off those student loans than you do to save for retirement. And if you don’t have retirement savings, then you might have to rely on your kids for s- financial support as you age, and that’s only gonna hurt them. It’s gonna hurt them more than not paying for their college education and forcing them to get student loans. And so I get frustrated when people say that they’re focusing on saving for their kids’ college education before saving for their own retirement.
[00:34:16,409] John Lanza: Great advice, Cameron. All right, are you ready for the fast and fun round?
[00:34:20,650] Cameron Huddleston: I’m ready.
[00:34:20,710] John Lanza: New questions.
[00:34:21,989] Cameron Huddleston: All right.
[00:34:23,630] John Lanza: So, Cameron, what is the, what’s one thing you wish every new graduate would do with their very first paycheck?
[00:34:31,770] Cameron Huddleston: Look at it and create a budget. Don’t look at it as like, wow, look at all this money that I can spend. You’re gonna take that, you’re gonna look at that paycheck and figure out where it needs to go. What do you need to pay for? The rent, the cell phone, the car payment, the student loan payment. How much of that paycheck can I afford, again, to have automatically deposited into retirement savings? How much can I afford to have deposited into an emergency fund? Don’t look at that paycheck as your ticket to free spending [laughs], because for some kids it’s a lot of money. You know, if you didn’t work or you were only making a small amount with a part-time job and suddenly you get this big chunk of money that’s deposited into your checking account, it looks like, wow, man, I’m rich. I could have a lot of fun.
[00:35:25,490] John Lanza: [laughs]
[00:35:25,540] Cameron Huddleston: And so that’s not what you should be thinking. You should be thinking, where does this money need to go? Not what do I wanna do with it that’s gonna be fun?
[00:35:34,190] John Lanza: Yeah, that was exactly the way I thought about it. I remember getting that money like, “Man, this is great.”
[00:35:41,049] Cameron Huddleston: Exactly. I’m taking all my friends out to dinner tonight. We’re going to the bar.
[00:35:44,890] John Lanza: Well, I think that’s good advice. Second question, what is one small daily habit that has had an outsized impact on your financial or personal well-being? This could be personal. It could also be family well-being.
[00:35:59,210] Cameron Huddleston: I think this has an impact on both well-being and finances, and that is making meals at home. It helps because I work at home, so I can make my coffee at home. I can make my lunch at home and make my dinners at home. We do go out to dinner sometimes. Not a lot. We do get carryout, but most of our meals are cooked at home. So not only does it save money, but it means we’re eating more healthfully because we’re not getting, you know, greasy fast food or whatever. We’re eating fruits and vegetables, which I think is good, and so it’s a win-win.
[00:36:38,149] John Lanza: That sounds like a win-win.
[00:36:40,330] John Lanza: If you had to describe your money philosophy in one word, what would it be and why?
[00:36:47,130] Cameron Huddleston: I think it’s balanced.So I mentioned that my oldest daughter is a saver and she’s… Can be frugal to a fault. My middle daughter is kind of a mix between spending and saving. So I fall in that middle area, a mix between spender and saver. It’s okay to spend money sometimes. You know, you wanna figure out
[00:37:09,649] Cameron Huddleston: how to spend your money in a way that brings you the most value. That, again, I should say that aligns with your value, not just spending our money on whatever you see that catches your eye. Not a good idea. But, you know, spending your money if you enjoy travel, if spending it on trips or if you do like going out to dinner, so. But also making sure that you’re saving too. So I would say balanced.
[00:37:32,750] John Lanza: Thank you, Cameron. All right, last question in the fast and fun round. If you could swap places for a week with a character from a book or movie and learn, to learn their money mindset, who would that character be?
[00:37:47,450] Cameron Huddleston: So I can’t think of anyone from a movie or a book because oftentimes in
[00:37:54,149] Cameron Huddleston: movies, in fiction, people who have money are often portrayed as bad guys. You’re rich so you’re greedy. And I don’t like that characterat- characterization of people with money. There are plenty of people who’ve made a lot of money who are very generous with their money. So maybe I would wanna swap places with someone like a Warren Buffett, who has done incredibly well, to just kind of, like, understand that mindset that, that motivates him
[00:38:27,270] Cameron Huddleston: to be as ambitious as he has been. Like, how he can, like, look at a company, a failing company and identify the right company and buy it, turn it around. Like, it would be cool to get into his mind. Um, you know, he’s also generous with his money too. So, you know, that might be someone, you know, whose mind I would like to get into. Um, you know, maybe, you know, an Oprah Winfrey who’s done very well and who has diversified her income sources, someone like that, someone I could learn from. But can’t think of anyone in movies or a book.
[00:39:02,549] John Lanza: That’s great. I like that. I, I, I might incorporate this question into the, uh, typical fast and fun round questions ’cause I think now it could be a kind of a fun one to address. Or I was wondering, as you were saying that, if you went into someone’s mind for a week and you came out, would you be inexorably altered to the point where it would drive you mad? [laughs] All right, Cameron, to finish things up, how can people find you and what you do online?
[00:39:29,790] Cameron Huddleston: I think the easiest way is on my website, which is cameronhuddleston.com. So there’s information about me, my book. I’ve got a newsletter. There’s a way to contact me and so it’s all there.
[00:39:45,470] John Lanza: Yep. Easy to find. Well, Cameron, I appreciate your time and insight. This was great. I’m glad we had the chance to have our second conversation, and thanks again for coming on The Art of Allowance podcast.
[00:39:57,790] Cameron Huddleston: Thank you.
[00:39:58,830] John Lanza: [Music]
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