AOA 059: Patience on Your Money-Smart Journey – Featuring Kelly Mindell

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“It’s really important to know what you want and where your priorities are because that dictates where you’re spending things, what you’re striving towards, and also I think when to stop.”

— Kelly Mindell

How do you leverage an allowance system to communicate family values to a young child?

As my sister, Kelly Mindell, is learning on her family’s money-smart journey, the key is patience. Lots and lots of patience! The tables are turned during this special episode of The Art of Allowance Podcast, as Kelly peppers me with questions regarding her own program. But so this installment doesn’t turn into a family reunion (or, more likely, digress to the level of a lively Lanza board game night), my former guest and fellow money-smart movement co-conspirator Robin Taub joins in as co-host.

Kelly is the founder and visionary behind Studio DIY, a colorful lifestyle brand that inspires over 700K followers throughout the social media landscape with DIY projects, bold home decor ideas and memorable holiday celebrations. Her projects have been featured in HGTV Magazine, Real Simple and Domino as well as on NBC’s Parks & Recreation, Miley Cyrus’s Milk tour, NPR, BuzzFeed and The Today Show. Kelly lives in Los Angeles with her husband, Jeff, and son, Arlo.

Robin is a Chartered Professional Accountant (CPA, CA), keynote speaker and bestselling author. Her latest award-winning book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent and Money-Smart for Life, gives parents the information, strategies and inspiration they need to teach their kids about money. She holds a Bachelor of Commerce (with High Distinction) from the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto. Robin puts her money where her mouth is and has two (mostly) money-smart young adults, a son and a daughter.

Links (From the Show)

Show Notes (Find what’s most interesting to you!)

  • Experimenting with a different podcast format [3:55]
  • A bit about Kelly and her family’s allowance system [4:31]
  • A refresher on Robin and her five pillars of money [6:20]
  • What happens when past “questionable” purchases aren’t motivators to change spending habits? [8:47]
  • Should parents intervene in spending decisions? [16:09]
  • Do parents need to introduce saving for a larger goal (like a car, a college education, or a trip)? [23:15]
  • When should parents introduce savings or investment accounts? [26:59]
  • How can parents help their children transition from one goal to the next? [28:54]
  • Should parents always carry their child’s “Spend Smart” money with them? [34:56]
  • Kelly’s money-smart role models [41:24]
  • Lessons in living beneath your means [43:15]
  • Money empowerment as confidence [44:33]
  • Investing in board and logic games [45:33]
  • “It doesn’t hurt to ask.” [49:23]
  • A trio of parenting account recommendations [51:44]
  • Finding Kelly on the web [53:16]
  • Joining the Studio DIY community [53:51]

Click here for the full transcript.

If you liked this episode …

Ready to create a vision board with your kids based on Robin’s suggestion? In this video short, podcast guest and money expert Ellen Rogin discusses how to set up a practical prosperity picture (vision board) and shares visualization techniques as well as suggestions for success. Alternatively, you can listen in at 25:03 for all the details.

Want more information on a values-based allowance system? In her second appearance on The Art of Allowance Podcast, this episode’s co-host, Robin Taub, offers strategies for incorporating family values into money conversations, like charitable giving (11:11) and enhanced interest (19:06). Don’t forget to check out her first appearance as well!

Interested in setting up a jar for collective experiences or vacations? Award-winning financial literacy educator Tabatha Thurman introduces me to the concept of the Family jar during her Art of Allowance Podcast episode. Tune in at 19:45 to learn more.

Please Subscribe

If you like this podcast, then please give us a review and subscribe to the show. The Art of Allowance Podcast is available on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Radio Public and now Amazon Music. Subscribing is free, and it will help me produce more enriching content for you to enjoy. Thanks!

You might also want to check out The Art of Allowance Project, our reimagined program to get your children excited about money smarts at any age. Until next time, I wish you and your family well as you journey forth.

Thanks for listening!

John

Full Transcript

This transcript is from The Art of Allowance Podcast, Episode 59, featuring host John Lanza and guest Kelly Mindell.

00:00:00,080 [John Lanza]
Hello and welcome to episode 59 of The Art of Allowance Podcast. I’m your host, John Lanza

00:00:08,880 [Kelly Mindell]
It doesn’t hurt to ask, um, is my message, and I think this applies, I think it can apply to money, but also just to life in general. I’ve always been, um, someone who doesn’t like to be just, like, pushed into a box of some sort. Um, and that, and I’ve managed to

00:00:27,540 [Kelly Mindell]
break out of many because I’ve just asked. Like in college, I, um, I knew what I wanted to do and I, and so I asked the head of the department if I could make my own curriculum.

00:00:40,269 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:00:40,280 [Kelly Mindell]
And no one had asked that before, [laughs] and they said yes because I built it and I found a mentor and I ended up s- honestly building-

00:00:47,830 [John Lanza]
Wow

00:00:47,860 [Kelly Mindell]
… the business that I now run, which makes the money that provides for our family. So I guess it does apply in many ways, even down to money. There are so many systems and things that we grow up around that are, they’ve been here forever, so we’re just like, “Oh, this is the options,” and I think there are so many more options, and it never hurts to ask-

00:01:09,680 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:01:09,690 [Kelly Mindell]
… to change them. And somebody can say no, but it doesn’t hurt to ask, right?

00:01:17,180 [Kelly Mindell]
[upbeat music]

00:01:20,350 [John Lanza]
In this very special episode, I speak with my sister, Kelly Mindell. Now, Kelly is trying to raise her son, Arlo, my nephew, of course, money smart. Because Kelly has lots of questions, I thought you’d enjoy it if we kind of turn the tables and let my guest, Kelly, ask me questions. And so that this installment of The Art of Allowance Podcast didn’t turn into a family reunion or, more likely, digress to the level of a lively Lanza board game night, [laughs] uh, I invited my former guest and fellow money-smart movement co-conspirator, Robin Taub, a youth money expert in her own right, to join me as co-host. So here’s a quick intro to both Kelly and Robin. Kelly is the founder and visionary behind Studio DIY, which is a colorful lifestyle brand that inspires over 700,000 followers throughout the social media landscape with DIY projects, bold home decor ideas, and memorable holiday celebrations. Kelly’s projects have been featured in HGTV Magazine, Real Simple, and Domino, as well as on NBC’s Parks and Recreation, Miley Cyrus’s Milk Tour, NPR, BuzzFeed, and the Today Show. Like me, Kelly lives in Los Angeles with her husband, Jeff, and of course, Arlo. My co-host today is Robin Taub. She’s a CPA, keynote speaker, and bestselling author. Her latest award-winning book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life, gives parents the information, strategies, and inspiration they need to teach their kids about money. She has a Bachelor of Commerce with high distinction from the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto. Yes, she is a Canadian. And Robin puts her money where her mouth is and has two mostly money smart young adults, a son and a daughter. So I’m really excited to bring you this very special episode of The Art of Allowance Podcast.

00:03:36,440 [John Lanza]
[upbeat music] Today, I am speaking with Kelly Mindell, my sister. Welcome, Kelly.

00:03:43,520 [Kelly Mindell]
Thank you. I’m excited to be here.

00:03:45,700 [John Lanza]
I’m also speaking with one of my favorite co-conspirators in the money-smart movement, Robin Taub. Welcome, Robin.

00:03:53,980 [Robin Taub]
Thanks, John.

00:03:56,120 [John Lanza]
So today is, as you can probably tell, is, uh, our format’s gonna be a little bit different. So in this case, in our story here, Kelly is actually gonna be asking Robin and me questions. Um, and the reason I wanted to do this is that, um, Kelly has been sending me a bunch of questions, uh, because she has a younger son and she’s trying to raise him money-smart. I thought, you know, rather than just answer these questions straight up, let’s have a conversation about it and let’s bring in another expert so you’re not seeing, listening to just me tell you my advice on it. Um, you can get advice from another expert. And so, uh, I think the best way to start here is for Kelly, just tell us a little bit about the system that you’ve been implementing with Arlo, um, who is your son’s name.

00:04:41,100 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:04:41,520 [John Lanza]
And, uh, and then just, uh, then we can kinda get into the questions here.

00:04:45,700 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. So I have a six-year-old named Arlo. Um, and I have wanted from a young age to teach him, uh, the value of money, which I feel like is even harder now when there’s like, everything’s online and there’s so many other aspects. It’s not as, like, physical as it used to be in the good old days.

00:05:05,720 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:05:06,290 [Kelly Mindell]
Um, and so with him, I have a, I follow your system pretty well. I read The Art of Allowance. I’m following that system, but I have three jars. We have a spend… uh, a share, a save, and a spend smart jar. Um, and then we usually, um, he gets

00:05:26,040 [Kelly Mindell]
a dollar per year he is old a week. So we do that. Um, he has to put $1 in save and one in share, and then he gets to decide what he wants to do with the rest.

00:05:39,040 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.

00:05:39,380 [Kelly Mindell]
Um, and we have usually, like, a goal he’s working towards. Um, and with that, I usually, I keep track of what the, like what’s in each jar, and then I try to do like a little,

00:05:55,660 [Kelly Mindell]
like a temperature chart. I don’t know what the right thing is, where he kind of like tracks it almost.

00:05:59,960 [John Lanza]
Yeah, like a thermo- like a goal thermometer.

00:06:01,840 [Kelly Mindell]
Exactly. There you go.

00:06:03,040 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:06:03,400 [Kelly Mindell]
Um, and so we track it so he can visually see, and he loves coloring it in. Um-And then, yeah, that’s how we work towards the goal. So that’s the, that’s the system that we have set up for right now.

00:06:17,516 [John Lanza]
Yep. Cool. Well, that gives us a good lay of the land. And, and actually-

00:06:21,996 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:06:22,006 [John Lanza]
… if you don’t mind, I think it’s probably good, even though I kinda gave your bio, uh, I’ll have given your bio earlier R- Robin-

00:06:29,426 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm-hmm

00:06:29,486 [John Lanza]
… it might be good for you to give us just a little bit of, um, context-

00:06:35,016 [Kelly Mindell]
Sure

00:06:35,156 [John Lanza]
… uh, talk about kind of your book and how you come at this as well.

00:06:39,496 [Robin Taub]
For sure. So as John said, we are co-conspirators because I also have written a book to help parents teach their kids about money, and it’s called The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life. So I’m coming at this as an accountant by training, so that’s my f- you know, and I worked in, in accounting firms, in financial firms, in derivatives at Citibank. Uh, but for the last, uh, many, many years, I’ve been focusing on youth financial literacy. I’m also in Toronto, Canada, so I bring a maybe slightly different cultural perspective, but I think many of the things we’re gonna talk about are universal. And just like, uh, you know, your system with, uh, save, spend smart, and share, I also talk in my book about the five pillars of money: earning, saving, spending, sharing, and investing. That’s the one that I’ve added.

00:07:38,836 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm.

00:07:38,936 [Robin Taub]
So I think that, you know, we’re very aligned, John, because I love your newsletter. I read it regularly. Uh, we’ve, I’ve been on your podcast before. Um, so I’m, I’m excited to get into some of the questions that Kelly’s got for us with Arlo. So I hope-

00:07:53,796 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:07:53,826 [Robin Taub]
… that helped set the context.

00:07:56,556 [John Lanza]
Uh, definitely does. And suffice it to say, Robin knows a whole heck of a lot more about money all the way through-

00:08:03,176 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]

00:08:04,106 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:08:04,106 [John Lanza]
… [laughs] than either of us do. So this is, that’s why I wanted to have you on.

00:08:07,116 [Robin Taub]
I’m thrilled.

00:08:07,206 [John Lanza]
It’s just, yeah, Robin is, Robin’s a two-time pod, now three-time podcast guest.

00:08:11,536 [Robin Taub]
Oh, yeah.

00:08:12,076 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:08:12,556 [Robin Taub]
And first time co-host.

00:08:13,866 [John Lanza]
She’s, she’s-

00:08:13,876 [Robin Taub]
That’s really cool for me.

00:08:15,396 [John Lanza]
She just brings a lot-

00:08:16,126 [Robin Taub]
So thanks for having me, John.

00:08:17,596 [John Lanza]
Yeah. Just brings a lot of insight. So okay, we’re gonna turn the reins over to you, Kelly, to ask us, to pepper us with questions.

00:08:25,276 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:08:25,486 [John Lanza]
And hopefully we can provide you with useful answers.

00:08:27,856 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes, ple- I’m so excited. Um, so yeah, as we’ve done our system for the last, it’s probably been a l- about a year, I think we started it when he turned five, or around then, um, there’s various questions that have come up. Uh, and so I’m gonna start with my first one. Uh, my first one is, um, how do you handle when, like, the consequence of not getting a lot of use out of a past purchase doesn’t seem to be that big of a motivator for guiding future behavior? So I feel like my child, for instance, um, he’s not that into toys. He’s really into saving for toys and getting them, but then once he has them, he’s not that into playing with them. Um, but that doesn’t seem to be a concept that’s clicking yet, that like, “Oh, I spent all this money on this thing that I’m not really using.”

00:09:25,136 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.

00:09:25,266 [Kelly Mindell]
“Maybe I should

00:09:27,956 [Kelly Mindell]
change my, what I’m saving for next time,” or something like that. Like, the consequence of that doesn’t seem to be something he’s grasping. And I’m curious if you both have any insight on, is that just a, an age thing, or is there any guidance there that you have?

00:09:48,076 [Robin Taub]
So I would start off by saying it’s definitely an age thing.

00:09:51,916 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:09:51,956 [Robin Taub]
He’s only six, and y- you know, the way I approach it in my book is I look at, um, four distinct age categories, and this one is the, the earliest, the youngest kids, ages five to eight. So I feel like you’re already doing a lot right, ’cause he is spending his own money, so to speak-

00:10:11,216 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes

00:10:11,226 [Robin Taub]
… whether it’s from allowance, birthdays, holidays, on these toys he wants. And you’re, you know, you’re delaying gratification by saving and doing your temperature chart. But he, just, I think seven is the age of reason. That’s what I’ve heard. My kids are in their 20s now, and I just … There is definitely, um, a point at which they can start to understand these things better. So-

00:10:32,316 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay

00:10:32,616 [Robin Taub]
… you know, go easy on him. He’s still a little bit young to understand the consequences of his purchases. Um, we can talk a little bit later about tying those things back to your values, but again, he’s really young to do a values exercise. But one thing I did wanna mention, ’cause I think it could be a useful tool, and John, I mentioned this to you in response to a newsletter you wrote, was that this colleague of, of ours, Karen Holland, has created something called the DOES IT MAKE SENSE?® SCORE on her-

00:11:02,626 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm

00:11:02,626 [Robin Taub]
… not-for-profit website called GIFTING SENSE®. And it’s exactly for this kind of thing, to help kids think through a purchase, um, how much use they’re gonna get out of it, um, what all the additional costs are other than just the price tag. Like, she gives a great example of going to a concert, because there’s getting there, getting home, the merch, the food. I mean, not for a six-year-old, but as, as you can see. You could check it out. It’s for middle school kids, I believe. But, and again, he’s young, but I think that might be something that could really help, just go through her DOES IT MAKE SENSE?® or DIMS SCORE for a specific purchase he’s contemplating.

00:11:40,496 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally.

00:11:40,936 [Robin Taub]
I’ll hand it back to you, John.

00:11:43,396 [John Lanza]
Yeah. I, I, that’s great advice. And I, I like the… I always think it’s, you can, you can take material from o- for older kids, and-

00:11:51,196 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:11:51,256 [John Lanza]
… certainly. I mean, one thing, we’re a big board gaming family, and-

00:11:55,056 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm

00:11:55,136 [John Lanza]
… I know Arlo plays games, you know, the age will say 10 years old, and like, this kid is dominating this game. [laughs]

00:12:01,005 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]

00:12:01,116 [John Lanza]
It says he’s for 10 years-

00:12:03,036 [Robin Taub]
True

00:12:03,046 [John Lanza]
… 10 years old. So usually you can, um, age those things down. I would just give-

00:12:07,176 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm

00:12:07,246 [John Lanza]
… one piece of tactical advice, ’cause what Robin-

00:12:09,876 [Robin Taub]
Yes

00:12:10,156 [John Lanza]
… said is good. We did this with our kids, which was when they bought something, they had to give one or more things back. And so there’s a little bit of a consequence, and it’s not just … It, it just, it causes them to think. They take another step in their thinking, right?

00:12:23,680 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally.

00:12:24,320 [John Lanza]
Um, so that, so that way. And then, and that donation can go to Goodwill.

00:12:28,430 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:12:28,460 [John Lanza]
That could be something he gives to a friend. Uh, but that would be my, uh, one, one pot- potential piece of tactical advice that could be useful. Plus, it’s useful for, for us as parents because it reduces … I mean, it’s something we’ve discussed, [laughs] Kelly. It’s like, it is incredible. Even when you are focused on keeping stuff to a minimum, the stuff piles up.

00:12:48,640 [Kelly Mindell]
It just appears.

00:12:50,560 [John Lanza]
Um.

00:12:50,580 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:12:50,980 [John Lanza]
It just-

00:12:51,380 [Kelly Mindell]
It just appears. [laughs]

00:12:51,670 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:12:53,940 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:12:54,060 [John Lanza]
It’s crazy.

00:12:55,300 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:12:55,440 [John Lanza]
It is absolutely crazy. Um, and then the only other thing I would say is that as parents we just have to be aware of our own decisions, ’cause they’re kind of watching us and what, and what we’re consuming.

00:13:06,380 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally.

00:13:06,640 [John Lanza]
Um, and so as lo- th- we wanna make sure that what we’re saying is aligned with what we’re doing as well.

00:13:12,680 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:13:12,860 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. ‘Cause if you’re constantly bringing things into the house yourself, or if the boxes keep arriving from Amazon, your kids do watch and listen and learn from you. I, I li- I like to say, like, we are financial role models for our kids. Whether we like it or not, they are absorbing a lot. So, yeah. And then as they get older-

00:13:32,260 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:13:32,290 [Robin Taub]
… you’re not gonna be able to get away with, uh, not walking the talk. They’ll, they’ll call you out on it if they see-

00:13:38,040 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:13:38,070 [Robin Taub]
… you’re being a hypocrite. [laughs]

00:13:40,460 [Kelly Mindell]
Absolutely.

00:13:41,660 [John Lanza]
Well, Robin, y- your point on the Amazon boxes is such a good one because they all look like gifts, right?

00:13:49,050 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:13:49,060 [John Lanza]
They just look like, “Here comes a constant stream of stuff.” And that is the … You could be ordering stuff just as like, just like you would go to the grocery store, but they don’t necessarily see it.

00:13:59,480 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. Those are all great. I feel like the consequence of … Or, not consequence, but yeah, the bringing something in, something goes out will be really helpful for him. And I also think, Robin, what you were saying about, um, the, like, additional costs that surround a purchase, I think that’s actually is really applicable to him. Something I’ll probably talk about again is he’s really into these LEGO sets right now that, like, kind of combine and build on each other. So it’s like when he gets one-

00:14:28,580 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:14:28,589 [Kelly Mindell]
… he’s gonna want another. And is he not-

00:14:30,280 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:14:30,290 [Kelly Mindell]
… if he’s not playing with the ones he’s, he has, but it’s gonna lead to more, are we just building upon spending more and more and more? So I think that’s something I’ll keep in mind for sure.

00:14:42,320 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. And like I used to say to my kids when they were little and they would see something else, you know, that they wanted, I would say like, “Remember the last time we were at, at this store and this very same thing happened, and you bugged me to buy you whatever it is, X?” I was like, “Where is that in the house? Can you even tell me-

00:14:59,890 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs] Where it is. That’s good.

00:15:00,720 [Robin Taub]
… where, where that is?”

00:15:01,380 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:15:02,120 [Robin Taub]
Um, because it just reminds them, “Oh yeah, I really did want that really badly, but now I don’t even use it or play with it.” Sometimes writing something down, like getting them to come up with like a wish list or a vision board.

00:15:14,220 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:15:14,500 [Robin Taub]
So just writing it down takes some of the urgency away from feeling like you really have to have it.

00:15:19,220 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:15:19,330 [Robin Taub]
And then just, you know, walking away and sleeping on it. Even, you know, maybe with Arlo, at six you could just take a picture of something he wants, um, you know, literally like put it on the fridge or have it on his phone. Just this like, “Okay, we know you want this. We haven’t forgotten.”

00:15:34,200 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:15:34,290 [Robin Taub]
‘Cause maybe they think you’re not taking them seriously and that, you know. “We haven’t forgotten it’s there, but let’s just see how it goes.”

00:15:41,360 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally. I think he’d respond to that. ‘Cause we do that now, and he, ’cause he builds all sorts of towers and games and things, but we don’t have a playroom so it’s like in the middle of our living room and we can’t walk. So we’ll be like, “Well, we have to take it down, but we’ll take a picture.” And that goes really well, so that may track in that same concept.

00:15:57,929 [Robin Taub]
Oh, good.

00:15:58,320 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. Awesome. Um, okay. My next question.

00:16:04,460 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.

00:16:04,550 [Kelly Mindell]
Um, and it kind of builds off of this, but it’s more about at what level or not at all should I intervene as a parent in these decisions at this age? So he just had a birthday in March, um, and we

00:16:22,540 [Kelly Mindell]
were unprepared for the amount of gift cards [laughs] and money he was-

00:16:28,480 [Robin Taub]
Mm

00:16:28,490 [Kelly Mindell]
… going to get. Um, we had a party for his whole class, which was awesome, but we just weren’t fully prepared for how to direct him how to use that, um, that money or those gift cards. And I wasn’t sure how much to intervene there, because he basically immediately got his goal that he was saving for and then still had more even though he didn’t have a goal, but he was like, “Well, now I have to spend it.” And so at what level or what recommendations do you have for intervening? ‘Cause I know that

00:17:05,080 [Kelly Mindell]
it is important for, um,

00:17:09,040 [Kelly Mindell]
him to make mistakes, but also, uh, w- [laughs] where do I stop it? [laughs]

00:17:16,660 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:17:16,870 [Kelly Mindell]
If at all.

00:17:18,460 [Robin Taub]
Again, because he’s only six, I feel like they do need a lot of guidance at that age. Um, because, uh, they just don’t, haven’t developed self-control in the same way. They don’t have that rational mind yet. So I would say guide him as much as you can. Talk about all these different options. He can save it. He can put it in his spend smart jar. He can share it with others. And then, you know, see what he says and, and h- what he wants to do with it. And again, like he might get the amounts wrong. Like, he might wanna spend most of it and only save a little bit, and you might wanna flip that.

00:17:54,680 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:17:55,020 [Robin Taub]
I think as they get older, like if you’ve been training them, then you’d wanna be a little more hands-off. I mean, they’re gonna start pulling away from you anyways as they become teenagers and adolescents. That’s normal. And then you do wanna let them make mistakes, because the stakes are low and they can learn from them.

00:18:10,820 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:18:11,280 [Robin Taub]
Um, I’ll give you two other practical tips. I had a parent once tell me that she actually bought gift cards off of her kids.

00:18:19,620 [Kelly Mindell]
Interesting.

00:18:19,880 [Robin Taub]
Like, so she would pay them cash so that they could then make the choices.’Cause with the gift card, all you can do is spend.

00:18:26,236 [Kelly Mindell]
Right.

00:18:26,736 [Robin Taub]
But with the cash, they could share some, they could save some. So that was what one parent told me. I loved that. I think that’s in my book.

00:18:32,096 [Kelly Mindell]
That’s so smart.

00:18:32,736 [Robin Taub]
The other thing is, and I, I hope it’s not just in Canada, but it may be, however, there may be something similar in the US, is a, a website called ECHOage, E-C-H-O-A-G-E.com, and it, it basically helps you manage a birthday party, send out the invitations. But what’s really cool about it is that, uh, a- a- and w- is that half the money, you, it basically lets you collect money for, from the in- uh, guests that are invited, half of which goes to a charity of the child’s choice, and half goes towards buying him one big gift that he has chosen.

00:19:09,356 [Kelly Mindell]
Awesome.

00:19:09,776 [Robin Taub]
So the website allows you to do all that. Um, and then you don’t end up with, like, 30 kids in the class, 30 different gifts, like half of which they just, like, you know, never look at at all, and you’re giving back, and you’re getting your child involved in whatever it is that they wanna support.

00:19:26,116 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:19:26,356 [Robin Taub]
So-

00:19:26,756 [Kelly Mindell]
Wow, that’s great

00:19:27,276 [Robin Taub]
… I love, I, it’s called ECHOage.

00:19:29,156 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:19:29,316 [Robin Taub]
I really like it.

00:19:30,156 [Kelly Mindell]
That’s awesome.

00:19:32,296 [John Lanza]
Yeah. That’s, uh, wonderful. I, I don’t know if we have something like that, but we’re definitely gonna look at it-

00:19:36,636 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:19:36,646 [John Lanza]
… and if we do find something-

00:19:38,336 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:19:38,346 [John Lanza]
… we will put that into the show notes, and I’ll mention it-

00:19:41,536 [Robin Taub]
Yay

00:19:41,776 [John Lanza]
… at the, uh, at the end of the podcast. So, thanks Robin. I have one thought on the, um… I mean, if he’s, if he’s got too much money, right, I think there’s two things you can do. So one, and he, and he just wants to spend it on goals, is, uh, is, is invoke that waiting period concept.

00:19:57,816 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:19:58,076 [John Lanza]
Um, so whatever it might be. So anything that’s over X amount of money, so let’s just say it’s anything over $20, you have to wait a week, and then he can-

00:20:06,236 [Robin Taub]
Mm

00:20:06,716 [John Lanza]
… you, and this, I think, gets to what Robin was saying, take a picture of that, put it on your fridge, put it on a jar, wherever you want-

00:20:13,706 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:20:14,176 [John Lanza]
… but go at least X amount of days. It could be, and you could, there’s all different ways you can do it. You could do two days for $20, one week for $40, you know, however you wanna structure it. But the main point is it doesn’t allow him, when he’s flush with cash, to just go to blow that money. And especially-

00:20:30,506 [Robin Taub]
Sure, yeah

00:20:30,506 [John Lanza]
… at this age, he does need some guardrails. As much as we wanna give control, like Robin said-

00:20:36,156 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:20:36,166 [John Lanza]
… they’re still learning all of this. Um-

00:20:39,106 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:20:39,106 [John Lanza]
… the other thing you can do, uh, which I’ve, I don’t think I’ve mentioned before, is that, you know, if the bathtub is full, we can turn off the faucet. So you could just ratchet down the allowance, for example. It doesn’t necessarily-

00:20:49,666 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:20:49,666 [John Lanza]
… answer this question, but you can ratchet the allowance down for a few weeks, and you can even talk to him about it. I mean, I-

00:20:56,136 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:20:56,296 [John Lanza]
… and I think a lot of these things, when you’re having the conversation, it could even sound silly, but I think we’re, b- when you’re talking to a six-year-old, but I think it’s worth it to say these things, like, “You know, the purpose of the allowance is to let you learn to use money smart.”

00:21:11,536 [Robin Taub]
Yes.

00:21:11,696 [John Lanza]
Right?

00:21:11,925 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm-hmm.

00:21:12,436 [John Lanza]
“And in this case, we feel like you might have a little too much money. We’re gonna turn off the allowance ’cause you got plenty of money for a birthday. We’ll turn it back on in a few weeks.” And, you know, see how he reacts to it. But-

00:21:22,136 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:21:22,256 [John Lanza]
… more than anything, it’s just, I think this language of money is what’s so important, and, and him, and you modeling how open you are about that conversation, and him realizing this is just a conversation piece. Um, so those are two thoughts.

00:21:38,036 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:21:38,346 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. That’s-

00:21:38,476 [Robin Taub]
I like that

00:21:39,656 [Kelly Mindell]
… that’s great. ‘Cause I remember-

00:21:41,116 [Robin Taub]
That’s a good one

00:21:41,645 [Kelly Mindell]
… his birthday was on a Satur- his party was on a Saturday, and then my alarm went off on Sunday for [laughs] his allowance, and I was like, “Wait,

00:21:49,776 [Kelly Mindell]
why am I handing over-

00:21:51,196 [Robin Taub]
Too much

00:21:51,205 [Kelly Mindell]
… more money [laughs] to this child-

00:21:53,256 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:21:53,516 [Kelly Mindell]
… right now?” So that’s-

00:21:54,506 [John Lanza]
Hear that

00:21:54,506 [Kelly Mindell]
… I hadn’t thought about doing that. But yes, for us, it’s not tie, we don’t tie allowance to anything. It is just a tool for him to learn about money, so that’s a really good point that I hadn’t thought of. Yeah.

00:22:05,636 [John Lanza]
Yeah. It’s just coming back to the why.

00:22:07,236 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:22:07,396 [John Lanza]
Um, the other one that I think we d- th- this is really-

00:22:09,856 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm

00:22:09,866 [John Lanza]
… important for, um, not necessarily for friends, but for family, because they’re the ones who are gonna be consistently giving gifts to your kids, is get them away from, you know, to the extent you can. I mean, there’s, there’s a certain amount of grandparent privilege.

00:22:22,756 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:22:23,476 [John Lanza]
And I know all the grandparents are gonna be listening to this.

00:22:26,086 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes. [laughs]

00:22:27,006 [John Lanza]
So it’s ve- you, you guys are more than generous, but getting them to put money into, you know, 529, uh, investment vehicles, you know, I, as well as, you know, some consumables or experiences with the ki-

00:22:41,316 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm

00:22:41,326 [John Lanza]
… with the kids. But I think having the conversation with the rest of the family is really good. And one thing my mom used to do, this was, she, she would send, I remember sending, like, $15, three fives. One was save, one was share, and one was spend smart.

00:22:54,936 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:22:55,076 [John Lanza]
So those are just ideas. I think having the conversation with the family is, is definitely worthwhile. Um-

00:23:01,856 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:23:02,076 [John Lanza]
… and understanding that there is a certain amount of grandparent privilege that we know.

00:23:04,396 [Kelly Mindell]
Absolutely.

00:23:05,316 [John Lanza]
Uh, we, we enjoy. [laughs]

00:23:05,556 [Kelly Mindell]
There’s a delicate balance. [laughs] Totally. Um, that kind of, uh-

00:23:11,466 [Robin Taub]
It-

00:23:11,466 [Kelly Mindell]
… leads into my next question, which is, um,

00:23:16,636 [Kelly Mindell]
at what point do I or should I introduce the idea of saving for something bigger that he can’t really comprehend yet? Like, I remember I had a friend growing up whose parents always made her put money into a bank account, and growing up, I was like, “Oh, that’s a bummer for you. You can’t spend it.” But then [laughs] come high school, she bought a car, and I mean, that is obviously something he can’t comprehend yet. He only sees 10 minutes into the future at this time. But at what point

00:23:51,636 [Kelly Mindell]
do I introduce that concept? ‘Cause, I mean, a birthday was a great example. It’s like he had this influx of money from friends and family that could have gone towards something bigger instead of towards four Mario LEGO sets that are now collecting dust in the room behind me. [laughs]

00:24:09,936 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. I suppose that’s where the invest pillar comes in, because it-

00:24:15,006 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:24:15,496 [Robin Taub]
… is for longer term savings goals. And maybe at this age, you have to make an executive decision as parent to say, “I think he’s gonna need a car.” I mean, you guys, LA-

00:24:28,160 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:24:28,170 [Robin Taub]
… I think you need a car is safe to say.

00:24:30,140 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:24:30,490 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:24:30,780 [Robin Taub]
Um, other places, maybe that wouldn’t be a goal for a child. Um, or post-secondary education or a home. What- whatever it might be that’s way down the road, like years, decades in the future.

00:24:43,520 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:24:43,880 [Robin Taub]
Maybe at this stage you make an executive decision as a parent and you put that into something, uh, like John said, the 529 or, uh, an interest account for … And then once they’ve be- uh, you know, reached the age of majority, they may say, “That’s not my goal, um, but that is my money, and I wanna do something else with it.”

00:25:05,260 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:25:05,600 [Robin Taub]
So,

00:25:07,080 [Robin Taub]
again, I, uh, we can talk about this now or later, but values is a big part of setting meaningful goals and compelling goals. And again, I think he’s just a bit young for that. So-

00:25:17,840 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay.

00:25:19,900 [Robin Taub]
What do you think, John?

00:25:21,620 [John Lanza]
Yeah, I think, uh, I- I think sequestering money into a separate savings account is a good idea.

00:25:26,480 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:25:26,530 [John Lanza]
And you can make that something … I mean, it’s a little different now because, you know, it was a rite of passage when I was a kid that you would go and get your passbook and all that. So-

00:25:34,780 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:25:34,880 [John Lanza]
… it doesn’t necessarily have to be physical, although I just think physical is probably gonna have a little bit more of an impact.

00:25:41,280 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:25:41,740 [John Lanza]
Um, but you could do it digitally. But I think that’s good. And then, um, getting at Robin’s point about making those executive decisions, you can also make the decision, now f- it’s gift cards, it’s one thing, but for cash, you don’t need to give all the cash to your kid-

00:25:55,280 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:25:55,410 [John Lanza]
… to the kid, um, that’s coming in for birthday money. So just take some of that. We definitely did that. And I hope my kids aren’t listening to this.

00:26:00,700 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]

00:26:01,020 [John Lanza]
Now, but with [laughs] … But no, th- that money me- went into an account which then they got, you know?

00:26:06,000 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:26:06,230 [John Lanza]
And, and the other thing is some of the youth accounts have really good interest rates, right?

00:26:11,740 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:26:12,140 [John Lanza]
Um, now interest rates are actually kind of decent. Uh, they’re getting better all around, but they used to be, you know, the interest, the interest rate was 0.01% or some ridiculous percent, and the kids’ accounts for the first $500 would be 5%-

00:26:25,580 [Robin Taub]
Hm

00:26:25,620 [John Lanza]
… at your local credit union, right?

00:26:26,960 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:26:27,160 [John Lanza]
So, um-

00:26:28,020 [Robin Taub]
Wow

00:26:28,070 [John Lanza]
… there’s even one here in LA that’s 6.1%.

00:26:31,210 [Robin Taub]
Whoa.

00:26:32,010 [John Lanza]
Wow.

00:26:32,010 [Kelly Mindell]
Wow.

00:26:32,040 [Robin Taub]
For the first 500?

00:26:33,440 [John Lanza]
For the first $1,000.

00:26:35,099 [Robin Taub]
Wow.

00:26:35,380 [Kelly Mindell]
1,000.

00:26:35,920 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:26:35,980 [Kelly Mindell]
Cool. That’s a lot.

00:26:37,440 [John Lanza]
But-

00:26:37,480 [Kelly Mindell]
I don’t know if our credit unions do that, but our banks certainly don’t pay any-

00:26:41,960 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:26:41,970 [Kelly Mindell]
… like, much of any interest on a youth account.

00:26:44,500 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:26:44,840 [John Lanza]
You’ve, you … It’s worth looking around, ’cause you can find-

00:26:47,380 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:26:47,389 [John Lanza]
… now you can find better, better deals on that. But in any case, figuring out some way to make that a little bit of a rite of passage-

00:26:54,320 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:26:54,329 [John Lanza]
… and then you don’t, they don’t have to really even be aware of that account for a little while. And then-

00:26:59,080 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah, I was gonna ask, what age do you remember, either of you, did you start bringing your kids kind of into the fold on the savings account, like that next level? Did you actually involve them?

00:27:11,800 [Robin Taub]
When, if we’re just talking about, like, the youth account or the student account for saving, just deferred spending, but not long term, um, you know, that would’ve been when they were old enough to open up one of those. So probably around 12.

00:27:24,300 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay.

00:27:25,280 [Robin Taub]
Uh, I would say grade six or so. Yeah, 11, 12. But both of my kids had bar and bat mitzvahs, and they got significant money for that.

00:27:34,260 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:27:35,040 [Robin Taub]
Um, that I opened up interest accounts, separate ones for each child, invested in low-cost index funds. I might have talked to them, I, I’m sure I did a little bit about what I did with the money, but it wasn’t until, uh, they were old enough to set up their own accounts and we transferred everything out in kind that I really got them involved in, in that.

00:27:56,880 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay. Got it.

00:27:58,920 [John Lanza]
The other thing that I was just thinking about, this was an idea, I think it’s one, one of the, our initial podcasts, one of our first 10 podcasts, is setting up, like, a vacation jar.

00:28:09,200 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.

00:28:09,730 [John Lanza]
Um, something, or just some kind of-

00:28:10,800 [Robin Taub]
Nice

00:28:10,810 [John Lanza]
… experience jar-

00:28:12,060 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:28:12,190 [John Lanza]
… for the family, because I know you guys take a lot of trips.

00:28:15,080 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:28:15,580 [John Lanza]
And then it becomes more collective. And this is getting at what Robin was talking about before, which is the idea of instilling values, using money as a tool to help you instill the values that are important to you as a family. And-

00:28:26,430 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally

00:28:26,860 [John Lanza]
… and then you have the-

00:28:27,770 [Robin Taub]
Mm

00:28:27,770 [John Lanza]
… collective use of the money, obviously the experiential use of the money-

00:28:31,300 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:28:31,310 [John Lanza]
… which is very powerful, versus just the, the s- the accumulation of stuff.

00:28:36,180 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:28:36,360 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm-hmm.

00:28:37,060 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. I love that idea. That’s great, and I think he would really, really like that too. The visual-

00:28:43,100 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:28:43,110 [Kelly Mindell]
… aspect of it is really good, too. Awesome. Um, okay. Next. This is kind of back to the goal setting and achieving. Um-

00:28:54,980 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm

00:28:55,240 [Kelly Mindell]
… I find that there is, like, a lull between when he finally meets a goal and when he gets set on the next one. So it’s like he meets his goal, we buy it or, or go and do it. He’s done both toys and, like, experiences for his goals. And then he loses, like, a little bit of interest in the allowance aspect of things ’cause he doesn’t immediately have another thing that he’s like, “Oh, right. This is what I’m saving for.” And I struggle with where to direct him in that ’cause I don’t … It feels counterintuitive to be like, “Well, pick something that you wanna buy so [laughs] so we’re saving for it.” But I also know that, you know, with him being so young,

00:29:38,660 [Kelly Mindell]
that is the incentive, is the thing at this point. So do you have any, um,

00:29:46,180 [Kelly Mindell]
advice on how you transition from one goal to the next, I guess?

00:29:48,600 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. I mean, I think because he’s so young, he’s, he’s really not independent from you yet.

00:29:59,220 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:29:59,950 [Robin Taub]
So probably you’re, you know, when he’s out in the, out in the world, you’re together. Whereas once he gets to that next stage, the pre-teen stage, and then of course teenagers, like, they’re always out with their friends and doing stuff, and I’m, I’m guessing he’s gonna feel like he needs more money for things. Like, it’ll be a natural progression.

00:30:18,940 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:30:19,740 [Robin Taub]
I would say for now, though, like, take time to just enjoy the fact that he did accomplish a goal.

00:30:26,620 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:30:26,680 [Robin Taub]
Like, take a minute and just bask in the good feelings of having-Having done that, um, there’s no, I don’t think there’s any urgency around coming up with another goal just for the sake of it. But I understand, like, you don’t want him to lose interest in his allowance. Um, again, maybe there’s a simple way, like John said, like bring this concept down to his age of values. Really, it’s just what’s important to you.

00:30:51,138 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:30:51,148 [Robin Taub]
And you already sort of said he’s not so into toys. Like, I’m curious, what was the, um, experience that he saved up for?

00:30:58,568 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. So there’s, uh, there’s like a dinosaur, um … I don’t wanna call it a museum. It’s on the way between Los Angeles and Palm Springs. There’s like these-

00:31:08,358 [Robin Taub]
Okay

00:31:08,358 [Kelly Mindell]
… giant dinosaurs on the side of the road, and there’s kind of like this exhibit that goes along with it. Um, and so we have a place out in the desert, so we are always driving back and forth, and he’s always passing it and wanting to go in. So we were like, “Why don’t you make that a goal-

00:31:22,768 [Robin Taub]
Okay

00:31:22,778 [Kelly Mindell]
… to, um, get, save for a ticket for that?” And so he did and he loved it. And it was, it was great. And I loved it because it wasn’t more stuff [laughs] in my house.

00:31:32,408 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:31:32,518 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:31:33,008 [Kelly Mindell]
Um, so yeah.

00:31:33,477 [Robin Taub]
With learning and, um, yeah, that’s re- that’s, that’s really interesting. Um, have you been to the La Brea Tar Pits too?

00:31:40,868 [Kelly Mindell]
I-

00:31:40,948 [Robin Taub]
‘Cause that’s also a bit-

00:31:42,508 [Kelly Mindell]
I don’t think he’s been there-

00:31:43,888 [Robin Taub]
… dinosaur

00:31:43,898 [Kelly Mindell]
… but we should go.

00:31:45,348 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:31:45,978 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:31:46,008 [Robin Taub]
Maybe something else along the lines of what he’s interested in. Because-

00:31:50,208 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:31:50,628 [Robin Taub]
… you’re right, if he’s not … Like, some kids really want stuff.

00:31:53,628 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:31:53,798 [Robin Taub]
Even at a young age, they’re very influenced by that. Others don’t. And there are probably lots of experiences that are suitable for a young child in, uh, LA. I know we visited often as a family when our kids were young, and we went, you know, the, um, the car museum, the Peter-

00:32:08,868 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes

00:32:09,488 [Robin Taub]
… sen- is it Petersen Car Museum?

00:32:10,568 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:32:11,178 [Robin Taub]
It’s great. I love the museums in, in LA. So maybe other things like that.

00:32:15,958 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally.

00:32:15,958 [Robin Taub]
‘Cause a lot of, I, I think there’s admission fees for those.

00:32:18,908 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:32:19,588 [Robin Taub]
Uh, so, and again, don’t rush, don’t feel like you have to, but maybe get him excited by making it, attaching it to something that he’s passionate about.

00:32:28,388 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. And that’s a good, like, fill in in between any toys that he finds, ’cause there isn’t always a toy he wants, like I said.

00:32:37,148 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:32:37,208 [Kelly Mindell]
And also, those things are kind of always there, and always things I can throw out, and that we can do. And also a big value for us, we much rather would spend our money on experiences most of the time, so I like that. Yeah.

00:32:50,188 [Robin Taub]
And maybe he’ll wanna buy a souvenir in the gift shop. [laughs]

00:32:52,628 [Kelly Mindell]
There you go. [laughs]

00:32:55,508 [Robin Taub]
Little dinosaur.

00:32:56,568 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:32:56,888 [Robin Taub]
He doesn’t know he wants it yet, but he does-

00:32:58,488 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:32:58,578 [Robin Taub]
… and he’ll have money in his spend smart jar.

00:33:00,428 [Kelly Mindell]
There you go. [laughs]

00:33:03,568 [John Lanza]
I think the other thing is that, um, it, the interest in allowance ebbs and flows.

00:33:09,588 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:33:09,628 [John Lanza]
I mean, that happened with our kids, and it’s perfectly fine. Like, they, they don’t have to pay attention to it. It’s, it’s kinda one of those things, you know, uh, when they go to the, when they go to the store, uh, at some point, you know, they may have some money with them, and then they can buy something, you know, short term. And then at some point they’re gonna probably want something and, you know, whether it’s an experience or a thing, that can lead you to a goal. ‘Cause you definitely don’t wanna be pushing this for the sake-

00:33:33,808 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm-hmm

00:33:34,128 [John Lanza]
… of, um, having something to do with that money.

00:33:37,188 [Kelly Mindell]
Right.

00:33:37,388 [John Lanza]
I actually think the lack of interest is perfectly fine-

00:33:40,568 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay

00:33:40,868 [John Lanza]
… and just let it be. You know, just let it be. Um, because it will, the, it’s, it’s going to, uh, you know, he, n- you have this conversation going on, and it could be a month, it could be two months, it’ll, he’ll come back to it at some point, ’cause it’ll be something that he wants, that he wants to do. Um, and again, I think the other thing is then if you have something like a vacation jar that’s available there during the allowance time, you can redirect his attention to that as a way of doing s- a way of using his money more productively for the family itself. Like making-

00:34:13,848 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally

00:34:13,858 [John Lanza]
… those things really-

00:34:15,268 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm-hmm

00:34:15,278 [John Lanza]
… obvious and visual is pretty helpful. Just like when you have a goal and you put the actual goal on the jar, you do that so that you have a reference point-

00:34:23,588 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:34:23,808 [John Lanza]
… um, at each allowance. And then, you know, you can incentivize him by matching sometimes, or you can just-

00:34:28,768 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. Mm-hmm

00:34:28,808 [John Lanza]
… point to it and say, “Would you rather not put some money in the spend smart, maybe push it towards the goal?”

00:34:33,728 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. I think that would work really well. We have a few trips coming up in the fall, so that would be perfect. Yeah. I love that.

00:34:44,148 [Kelly Mindell]
Awesome. Well, and then on the, um,

00:34:48,268 [Kelly Mindell]
on the spend smart front, um, this one I still feel like I’m navigating c- because … And I guess my question is, is the key with this really to just always have it with you? So the, they have, or he has the autonomy to use his spend money in any sort of I want situation, um, and kind of, like I said before, like make those mistakes. Is the goal to just always have it there so when something, like, strikes him, he has the opportunity and he can make those choices?

00:35:24,308 [Robin Taub]
Again, with a six-year-old, it’s gonna be cash. So, like, and there’s gonna be spontaneous times where you’re just gonna end up somewhere where he wants something. So I don’t think realistically he’s always gonna have it on him.

00:35:37,528 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:35:37,868 [Robin Taub]
If you know you’re going to the mall or the plaza or grocery shopping, yeah, maybe it’s smart to say, “C- you know, bring some of your own money in case you see something you want.” But that won’t always be the case. In which case, what I would say is you can buy it for him, and then you can tell him while it’s happening, “Mommy’s paying for this now,” or Daddy, “but you have to pay us back-

00:36:00,028 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay

00:36:00,178 [Robin Taub]
… from your, um, spend smart jar when we get home.” And then literally make him tr- give you, hand that money over so there’s still that same visceral pain of loss. Um, so it still feels like he’s spent his own money.

00:36:13,788 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay. That’s good to know. Yeah, ’cause that’s happened a lot where we don’t have it-

00:36:17,788 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:36:17,798 [Kelly Mindell]
… and he wants to buy it, and I have him paying me back, and I didn’t know if that made the same connection, but it sounds like it does for the most part.

00:36:27,448 [John Lanza]
Yeah. I mean, the other thing you can do is, is use that as its kind of, its own waiting period, which is, oh yeah-

00:36:31,998 [Kelly Mindell]
Right. That’s true

00:36:32,038 [John Lanza]
… next time you come back. Well, we can get it when we come back. And then-

00:36:36,008 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:36:36,128 [John Lanza]
… you know, odds are he’s not gonna care about it. And but the next time-

00:36:38,788 [Robin Taub]
Right

00:36:38,798 [John Lanza]
… if he actually does want it, he will remember to bring his money [laughs] and go there.

00:36:42,528 [Robin Taub]
That’s actually a better answer, yeah.

00:36:43,928 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:36:44,168 [Robin Taub]
That’s, that’s very good.

00:36:46,288 [John Lanza]
Well, it’s funny-

00:36:46,888 [Robin Taub]
And then we-

00:36:46,938 [John Lanza]
… because a lot of these-

00:36:48,168 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:36:48,178 [John Lanza]
… I, I understand your frustration because I, it’s, I, I, I go back, now that my kids are 17 and 20 and think, “Oh, I should’ve done that.”

00:36:54,528 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:36:55,008 [Robin Taub]
I know.

00:36:55,328 [John Lanza]
“I should’ve done that. I should’ve done that. [laughs] I should’ve done that.” [laughs] Um, so it’s much easier-

00:37:01,148 [Robin Taub]
That’s right

00:37:01,338 [John Lanza]
… in retrospect.

00:37:01,948 [Kelly Mindell]
Totally.

00:37:02,308 [John Lanza]
You know? And I think Robin understands that. It’s like-

00:37:05,128 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:37:05,418 [John Lanza]
… and I can understand-

00:37:06,198 [Robin Taub]
And-

00:37:06,198 [John Lanza]
… how you, you feel like this is, ’cause, uh, week to week, the allowance can feel like, uh, they will, th- their interest definitely will wane.

00:37:14,568 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:37:14,748 [John Lanza]
And to the point where you’re giving them money, they’re n- they’re not paying attention.

00:37:18,498 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. Then I’m like, “Wait.”

00:37:19,308 [John Lanza]
They’re joking about it. Yeah.

00:37:20,768 [Robin Taub]
I’m handing you money.

00:37:21,838 [John Lanza]
You’re like, “This is important.”

00:37:22,208 [Robin Taub]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:37:22,857 [John Lanza]
For real. This is an important lesson. Um, but sometimes it can just be, “Here’s your money. Put it in the jar.”

00:37:29,458 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:37:29,458 [John Lanza]
“We’re done.”

00:37:29,888 [Robin Taub]
Okay.

00:37:30,148 [John Lanza]
Right? And, uh, yeah.

00:37:32,088 [Robin Taub]
I think that’s why some parents just kind of end up, it dwindles out, and they s- sort of don’t do it consistently.

00:37:37,468 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:37:38,468 [Robin Taub]
Because for that reason, what you’ve described, Kelly, ’cause your kid’s just not, they don’t need it-

00:37:43,088 [Kelly Mindell]
Right

00:37:43,288 [Robin Taub]
… and they’re not, they, they may lose interest. So I think it’s im- it’s great that you’ve stayed with it consistently even though he may not always care. Um, the other thing I was, I was gonna say, like, well, once he gets a debit card, then he’ll always have money on him. [laughs] That’s the problem-

00:38:00,588 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:38:00,598 [Robin Taub]
… because that’s, it’s so frictionless.

00:38:02,088 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:38:02,368 [Robin Taub]
Whereas you’ve kinda got this built-in friction, as John said, to take that pause.

00:38:06,368 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah, totally.

00:38:06,928 [Robin Taub]
Which is actually great. Most of us don’t have that anymore.

00:38:10,288 [Kelly Mindell]
Absolutely. Yeah. That’s true. That’s good. And I, and that is our case a lot of times, and honestly, we, we’ve had a few instances where we’ve, which we don’t usually

00:38:23,608 [Kelly Mindell]
buy him things or let him buy things spontaneously at the store, but there’s been a few times where we just, like, I don’t know, somehow we ended up with $20 from a grandpa or somebody, and we’re like, “Sure, go buy, spend it at Target or wherever.” And then he walks around and he’s, like, trying to find something he wants, but he doesn’t want anything, but he’s like, “But I have to spend it.” And so that-

00:38:45,288 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm. Yeah

00:38:45,358 [Kelly Mindell]
… um, that has been an issue a few times when we’ve broken our typical pattern, and I think that waiting period is a good t- a good idea. ‘Cause there was once where I talked him through it, and I was like, “If you really don’t want anything, maybe you shouldn’t buy it right now.” And then he waited, and ended up finding something he liked better somewhere else another time, and

00:39:06,388 [Kelly Mindell]
it worked. I don’t know if it’s still stuck-

00:39:08,208 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:39:08,218 [Kelly Mindell]
… up in there, but it worked that one time, so I’m gonna try to build [laughs] on that.

00:39:11,908 [John Lanza]
Well, you’re, you’re, you’re getting at the what really ma- all this, uh, they’re just experiences.

00:39:17,248 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes

00:39:17,448 [John Lanza]
And some of them are gonna be successful exper- well, they’re all experiences-

00:39:20,588 [Kelly Mindell]
Right

00:39:20,888 [John Lanza]
… from which we can all learn.

00:39:22,168 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:39:22,428 [John Lanza]
Right?

00:39:22,788 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.

00:39:22,828 [John Lanza]
So, um, and I think that’s, I think in general a lot of the questions that you’re asking have that flavor, which is, you know, am I doing this right?

00:39:31,578 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:39:31,888 [John Lanza]
Right? And I think Robin, right at the top, said you are doing it right, because, uh, you know, obviously we’re simpatico on this idea. It’s like, just starting the conversation early-

00:39:42,037 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:39:42,218 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm

00:39:42,218 [John Lanza]
… and demystifying money is such a big part of it. Because none of this is some guarantee that your kid’s gonna go up, grow up and be, you know, Warren Buffett or, um, you know, Ramit Sethi or whoever it might be. It’s just, it is, what you’re trying to do is just open up this conversation so that there’s just, there’s no mystery around it.

00:40:01,778 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:40:01,858 [John Lanza]
That’s really such a key thing. So, uh, you’re doing an excellent job there. So.

00:40:05,608 [Kelly Mindell]
Thank you.

00:40:06,278 [Robin Taub]
You did.

00:40:06,388 [Kelly Mindell]
I appreciate it.

00:40:07,408 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:40:07,438 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]

00:40:11,028 [John Lanza]
So do you have any more questions that you want answered, Kelly? Do you feel like we’ve, uh, covered most of them, or do you have anything else?

00:40:16,528 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah, I think those are my, my main ones. Um, and those were such helpful tips. I so appreciate it, ’cause there’s things that I keep coming back to, and I was like, “I just need some experts to answer them,” so thanks. [laughs]

00:40:30,128 [Robin Taub]
Oh, good. Good, good. And I’m sure other people listening are thinking the same thing, have had similar questions. And the advice we’ve given can be aged up to older kids too. I mean, these concepts apply throughout the different stages.

00:40:44,768 [John Lanza]
Yep.

00:40:45,288 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:40:45,928 [John Lanza]
Yeah, this makes me think, Robin, I think we need to do this with, uh, some different, some moms of different-

00:40:50,928 [Robin Taub]
Different age kids

00:40:51,138 [John Lanza]
… age kids or dads with different age kids, ’cause-

00:40:53,408 [Robin Taub]
Grandparents

00:40:54,167 [John Lanza]
… I, I think this is gonna … Right, grandparents. I think it’s terrific, ’cause-

00:40:57,248 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, for sure

00:40:57,498 [John Lanza]
… I’d just like …

00:40:58,768 [Robin Taub]
We’d love to.

00:40:59,278 [John Lanza]
Yeah, I think there’s so much good stuff here, so. All right, well then I’m gonna rip the reins back-

00:41:04,858 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]

00:41:04,858 [John Lanza]
… into my hands.

00:41:06,508 [Robin Taub]
Do it.

00:41:06,728 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:41:08,298 [Robin Taub]
Take the power.

00:41:08,768 [John Lanza]
And I’m gonna take over, [laughs] take over host duties.

00:41:12,198 [Robin Taub]
Okay.

00:41:12,198 [John Lanza]
I’m gonna ask you questions now.

00:41:13,958 [Kelly Mindell]
Let’s do it.

00:41:14,388 [John Lanza]
Are you ready, Kelly?

00:41:15,388 [Kelly Mindell]
I’m, I’m ready as I’ll ever be.

00:41:17,488 [John Lanza]
Okay. I think we have enough, I wanna a- I, I have these, uh, general questions, so, um, before we hit our fast and fun round questions-

00:41:24,148 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:41:24,158 [John Lanza]
… I wanted to ask you, who’s the most influential person in your life when it comes to the way that you think about money?

00:41:31,488 [Kelly Mindell]
So I feel like, um, my parents were good role models, in that they themselves, um, were really good with money, at least from my outside perspective. Um-

00:41:46,108 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:41:46,118 [Kelly Mindell]
… and so I think that was a really influential thing, just to see. They felt really, um, to me, they seemed to feel really confident in where their money was going, and they kinda knew the direction they were heading and that. Um, and then I also-

00:41:59,438 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:41:59,438 [Kelly Mindell]
… I’m gonna do two. Uh, my closest friends, um, are

00:42:06,088 [Kelly Mindell]
really inspiring to me, because they are very organized and very goal-oriented with their money.

00:42:11,678 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm.

00:42:11,688 [Kelly Mindell]
Like, they know, they, like, have their rough, like, retirement goals in all of this, and they’re the same age as me. Um, and they have, they’re very detailed about it, spreadsheets and budgets and all of that. And I, I recognize that I am not that person, and I will probably never be that detailed, but it’s very inspiring to see someone, um, like that. And I’ve definitely taken a few nuggets from them over the years.

00:42:37,584 [John Lanza]
Yeah, that’s great. Uh, yeah, our, our parents, the, the frugality, um, is, uh-

00:42:43,084 [Kelly Mindell]
Indeed

00:42:43,093 [John Lanza]
… very helpful, very helpful modeling, I think.

00:42:45,224 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:42:45,704 [John Lanza]
Right?

00:42:46,124 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:42:46,684 [John Lanza]
Um, I always said that about, about Dad is I have no, I just, uh, like cars just don’t really get me that excited, ’cause we always … [laughs] I can appreciate nice cars.

00:42:56,984 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:42:56,994 [John Lanza]
But it’s, like we, we always had just kind of cars that were either fi- somewhere in the l- somewhere in the [laughs] range of fine to really bad.

00:43:05,784 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:43:07,124 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:43:07,414 [Kelly Mindell]
Exactly.

00:43:08,304 [John Lanza]
So.

00:43:08,544 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes, absolutely.

00:43:10,364 [John Lanza]
Um, okay, so another question, just the last question before the fast and fun round, uh, questions. Uh, what’s the best lesson you, uh, that you learned from our parents about money?

00:43:22,364 [Kelly Mindell]
Oh. Um,

00:43:25,264 [Kelly Mindell]
I think

00:43:28,484 [Kelly Mindell]
they, and I, this comes with obviously an immense amount of privilege, but they were always very focused on paying off anything that they had as soon as they could. Um, and I think-

00:43:41,484 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:43:41,494 [Kelly Mindell]
… that has, like any sort of loans or any sort of anything, they were, like you said, frugality. They tried to really seemingly live within, um, their means when they could, and I feel like that

00:43:53,604 [Kelly Mindell]
did have a really big impact on me, um, in trying to do that and trying to not overstretch myself, um, in many ways. So I feel like that was a really big lesson that it wasn’t even necessarily spoken, it was just kind of surrounding me at all times. Um-

00:44:15,064 [John Lanza]
Yep

00:44:15,344 [Kelly Mindell]
… and I feel really lucky and privileged to, um, have had that lesson from a young age.

00:44:24,284 [John Lanza]
Nice. All right. So are you prepared now for the fast and fun round questions?

00:44:29,384 [Kelly Mindell]
Let’s do it. I’m ready. [laughs]

00:44:30,964 [John Lanza]
Okay, here we go. [laughs] So Kelly, what does the term money empowered mean to you?

00:44:38,004 [Kelly Mindell]
To me, it means confidence. Um, confidence mostly in what you want. Uh, I think it’s really important to know what you want and where your priorities are, um, because that

00:44:53,564 [Kelly Mindell]
dictates where you’re spending things, what you’re striving towards, and also I think when to stop. I feel like there’s a lot of, um, more, more, more culture in our world, and there’s also a point

00:45:08,964 [Kelly Mindell]
where are you reaching for more because that’s what, um, you want or because that’s what you think you’re supposed to have? And I think that ties-

00:45:16,204 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:45:16,214 [Kelly Mindell]
… in a lot to money, like having confidence, knowing where you’re, where you wanna put it, and where your values are in it, and when to stop in certain areas, and not just strive for more than what you actually want.

00:45:31,384 [John Lanza]
Yep. Makes sense. Uh, what’s the best investment of time or money you’ve ever spent on Arlo?

00:45:38,544 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay, I’m gonna go with time, maybe a little money here. But, um, and I think you’ll like this one. I would say his love of games. [laughs]

00:45:47,973 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:45:48,984 [Kelly Mindell]
I have a pur- I have a bigger purpose here, but, uh, as John mentioned before, we love games in our family. Uh, and I, from, I mean, from when he was born I was like, “This kid is gonna like games.” And [laughs] as soon as he was old enough to play them, I, we started playing them. Um, and one, I mean, it’s just fun. Games are fun, and I love them. But I think that playing board games and logic games and all sorts of things teach so many skills, critical thinking, strategy, teamwork, winning, losing, um, even some spending maybe, depending on [laughs] what games you’re playing, or saving. Um, and I think they also can create really core memories too. So, uh, that may seem so silly, but it was like honestly my fondest memories of my childhood of our family times are surrounding games. And I also-

00:46:43,394 [John Lanza]
Mm

00:46:43,413 [Kelly Mindell]
… feel like a lot of skills that I use daily are ones that I apply when playing-

00:46:49,464 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:46:49,624 [Kelly Mindell]
… when having family game night.

00:46:51,984 [John Lanza]
Yeah, and, and note to anyone, don’t play Scattergories with Kelly-

00:46:55,224 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:46:55,234 [John Lanza]
… because she will destroy you. [laughs]

00:46:58,224 [Kelly Mindell]
It’s my game. Yeah. [laughs]

00:47:01,544 [John Lanza]
She will absolutely destroy you. [laughs] And Robin, feel free in here if you have a question-

00:47:08,254 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:47:08,344 [John Lanza]
… you wanna throw in, um-

00:47:10,354 [Robin Taub]
Um, just-

00:47:10,354 [John Lanza]
… as we’re going through

00:47:11,264 [Robin Taub]
… one of the games I remember playing with my kids a lot was that game, I think it was called Mastermind where you have to break the code.

00:47:19,164 [Kelly Mindell]
Oh, yeah.

00:47:19,864 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:47:20,084 [Robin Taub]
It’s these colored beads.

00:47:20,654 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:47:20,654 [Robin Taub]
And you set it up behind like a little screen, and then you get to guess, and you say like, it’s kind of like Wordle, but it was for color codes, and it was like right place, wrong color, or ri- you know. Anyways, that was-

00:47:33,984 [Kelly Mindell]
Oh

00:47:33,994 [Robin Taub]
… a really fun one. And then as a kid, Trivial Pursuit came out-

00:47:37,833 [Kelly Mindell]
Uh-huh

00:47:37,833 [Robin Taub]
… when like my brother and I were little.

00:47:39,484 [John Lanza]
Oh, yeah.

00:47:40,164 [Robin Taub]
And oh my God, we love, we love that. And I’m like kind of the queen of like useless information.

00:47:46,524 [Kelly Mindell]
See. [laughs]

00:47:47,424 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:47:47,833 [Robin Taub]
So, uh, I do very well at trivia games. My son is the same actually, so.

00:47:52,844 [Kelly Mindell]
That’s awesome. But see, I feel like so many people have these stories and these memories, and like they’re surrounding-

00:47:58,574 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm

00:47:58,614 [Kelly Mindell]
… some sort of game, like your family game that you always played or something. It’s,

00:48:03,244 [Kelly Mindell]
it’s the best.

00:48:03,814 [John Lanza]
Yep.

00:48:03,844 [Kelly Mindell]
I love it.

00:48:04,144 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:48:05,884 [John Lanza]
Yeah, they really, it’s, we, we, I, that’s r- uh, last night I went across-

00:48:09,144 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. [laughs]

00:48:09,154 [John Lanza]
… to our neighbors. We were playing the game Splendor.

00:48:11,264 [Kelly Mindell]
Yep.

00:48:11,514 [John Lanza]
[laughs] It’s like, I can’t-

00:48:13,234 [Kelly Mindell]
That’s cool

00:48:13,424 [John Lanza]
… can’t get enough of the, uh, of these games.

00:48:15,694 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:48:15,704 [John Lanza]
And I, like Kelly, it’s like those are just like hard written onto my brain.

00:48:21,364 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:48:21,484 [John Lanza]
Those, uh, those, those memories of playing games.

00:48:24,184 [Kelly Mindell]
Mm-hmm.

00:48:24,204 [John Lanza]
And it’s, uh, such a blast. And Mastermind I remember ’cause I used to play that with my grandfather.

00:48:29,364 [Kelly Mindell]
Really?

00:48:29,774 [John Lanza]
And, uh, yeah. And it’s, I actually have a picture in my book, the picture, you can’t see Mastermind, but that’s actually-

00:48:35,833 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah

00:48:35,864 [John Lanza]
… he’s playing my uncle in Mastermind in the book.

00:48:38,564 [Robin Taub]
Oh, that’s so funny.

00:48:39,764 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:48:40,333 [Robin Taub]
The other, I just, you just made me remember the other game that my kids love that I also played. My mother used to play tennis, and she would bring my brother and I with her, and we would be so bored waiting for her, so we always played backgammon. That was really-

00:48:55,660 [Kelly Mindell]
Oh, yeah

00:48:55,670 [Robin Taub]
… popular. And then, like, his really liked it. I think they played at camp.

00:48:59,500 [John Lanza]
Mm-hmm.

00:48:59,680 [Robin Taub]
So I love backgammon. Like, I’m not great at it, but it’s fun.

00:49:04,760 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:49:05,040 [Kelly Mindell]
That’s awesome. That’s awesome.

00:49:06,630 [Robin Taub]
Strategy, play the board.

00:49:07,120 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. See, there you go, strategy.

00:49:09,420 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:49:10,680 [John Lanza]
All right, Kelly. So, um, I wanna ask you, um, if you could transmit a message that everyone would see, uh, sky written, on a billboard, wherever, uh, ideally relating to money smarts in some way, what would that billboard say?

00:49:26,800 [Kelly Mindell]
I would say,

00:49:31,000 [Kelly Mindell]
“It doesn’t hurt to ask,” um, is my message. And I think this applies … I think it can apply to money, but also just to life in general. I’ve always been, um, someone who doesn’t like to be just, like, pushed into a box of some sort. Um, and that, and I’ve managed to

00:49:49,740 [Kelly Mindell]
break out of many because I’ve just asked. Like, in college, I, um, I knew what I wanted to do, and I, and so I asked the head of the department if I could make my own curriculum.

00:50:02,190 [Robin Taub]
[laughs]

00:50:03,340 [Kelly Mindell]
And no one had asked that before, [laughs] and they said yes, because I built it, and I found a mentor, and I ended up s- honestly building-

00:50:10,870 [Robin Taub]
Wow

00:50:10,870 [Kelly Mindell]
… the business that I now run, which makes the money that provides for our family. So I guess it does apply in many ways, even down to money. But I just think-

00:50:20,600 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm

00:50:20,610 [Kelly Mindell]
… that there are so many systems and things that we grow up around that are, they’ve been here forever, so we’re just like, “Oh, this is the options,” and I think there are so many more options. And it never hurts to ask-

00:50:33,960 [John Lanza]
Yeah

00:50:33,970 [Kelly Mindell]
… to change them. And somebody can say no, but it doesn’t hurt to ask, right? [laughs]

00:50:41,180 [John Lanza]
Fantastic advice.

00:50:42,600 [Robin Taub]
I like that.

00:50:42,670 [John Lanza]
I love that.

00:50:42,690 [Robin Taub]
It’s, it’s a bit like, yeah, if you don’t ask, you don’t get.

00:50:45,860 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah.

00:50:46,280 [Robin Taub]
And kind of like everything’s negotiable. ‘Cause you’re so right. Like, someone presents you with something, you think that’s the only option.

00:50:53,480 [Kelly Mindell]
Yep.

00:50:53,880 [Robin Taub]
But it isn’t. But you have to have the w- I guess, the guts to propose a different. A- and a lot of people, I guess, they’re afraid to ask.

00:51:02,100 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah. And even when it comes to my … A good friend of mine works in, like, HR and things like that. She was talking about-

00:51:09,430 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:51:09,430 [Kelly Mindell]
… um, salaries and just saying, like, “Keep asking. Like, keep pushing until you get a no, if you can, because

00:51:18,960 [Kelly Mindell]
that’s, you know, it doesn’t hurt to ask. It doesn’t hurt to ask.” And then you get the no, and you kind of realize where you are, and you don’t undervalue yourself. So I think there’s so many applic-

00:51:27,300 [Robin Taub]
Mm-hmm

00:51:27,310 [Kelly Mindell]
… a- applications for that.

00:51:29,920 [John Lanza]
Yeah.

00:51:31,640 [John Lanza]
That’s very true. ‘Cause any time you get a yes, you’re thinking, “Oh, I should ask for more.”

00:51:34,440 [Kelly Mindell]
Yeah, [laughs] exactly. You’re like, “Oh, they said yes really-

00:51:36,920 [Robin Taub]
Like, like

00:51:37,100 [Kelly Mindell]
… really quickly on that.” [laughs]

00:51:39,520 [Robin Taub]
Yeah, exactly.

00:51:41,460 [John Lanza]
All right, Kelly. So w- one last fast and fun round question.

00:51:44,730 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes.

00:51:44,730 [John Lanza]
And that is, is there any kind of parenting, um, or money-smart book, uh, podcast, uh-

00:51:52,829 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:51:52,829 [John Lanza]
… or anything you go back to or gift the most often? You can’t, you can’t say, um, anything that’s, uh, related to this podcast. [laughs]

00:51:58,840 [Kelly Mindell]
The problem is, [laughs] the one parenting book I’ve read more than once is yours, or the one money book I’ve read, [laughs] so. I promise I wasn’t paid to say that. But, um-

00:52:10,280 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:52:10,860 [Kelly Mindell]
… I honestly have not read many parenting books. Um, I, I once again, I like to kind of pull pieces from different things. Um, there are a few people, I would say, on Instagram that I gain a lot of parenting and, like, kid-related advice from. I … They’re not necessarily money-related, but I feel like everything ties back to money, especially-

00:52:33,740 [Robin Taub]
It does

00:52:34,900 [Kelly Mindell]
… in this world.

00:52:35,680 [John Lanza]
Well, I’m gonna get you a copy of the wisest, Wisest Investment–

00:52:39,370 [Kelly Mindell]
Yes

00:52:39,460 [John Lanza]
… uh, from Robin here.

00:52:40,080 [Kelly Mindell]
I know.

00:52:40,560 [Robin Taub]
Yes.

00:52:40,570 [Kelly Mindell]
It’s on my list now.

00:52:41,669 [Robin Taub]
Well, you’re getting it anyway.

00:52:41,810 [Kelly Mindell]
I gotta do it.

00:52:42,760 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:52:43,260 [Kelly Mindell]
Let’s do it. Um, but a few-

00:52:45,730 [John Lanza]
All right

00:52:46,180 [Kelly Mindell]
… I can give you a few Instagram people that I follow. One is Destini Ann, one is-

00:52:50,880 [John Lanza]
Great

00:52:50,990 [Kelly Mindell]
… Kids Eat in Color, and one is Dr. Becky. And they’re all more on, um, the, like, emotional parenting side of things, but I feel like that builds trust, and trust builds kids coming to you in, um, any sort of situation, including when they’re trying to-

00:53:08,170 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:53:08,240 [Kelly Mindell]
… figure out what to do with money. So I feel like it all ties together.

00:53:12,000 [Robin Taub]
That’s a really good point.

00:53:13,760 [John Lanza]
Yeah. It’s fantastic.

00:53:15,100 [Robin Taub]
Yeah.

00:53:15,680 [John Lanza]
All right. So Kelly, how can people find you on social media and/or the web, which is pretty much your domain?

00:53:22,700 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:53:23,570 [John Lanza]
[laughs]

00:53:23,660 [Kelly Mindell]
Um, so they can find me @studiodiy on Instagram, and then studiodiy.com is my website.

00:53:33,800 [John Lanza]
Yeah. I mean, Kelly is by far, [laughs] the biggest influencer we’ve had-

00:53:39,470 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:53:39,470 [John Lanza]
… on this podcast.

00:53:41,160 [Kelly Mindell]
I’m honored.

00:53:41,290 [John Lanza]
So when you go there, just, just be prepared for the numbers of followers.

00:53:44,740 [Kelly Mindell]
Oh, my God. [laughs]

00:53:45,410 [John Lanza]
Because-

00:53:45,420 [Robin Taub]
Whoa

00:53:45,740 [John Lanza]
… it’s not a small amount. [laughs]

00:53:47,430 [Robin Taub]
You’re very kind.

00:53:48,490 [Kelly Mindell]
Okay.

00:53:48,500 [John Lanza]
And, uh, it’s-

00:53:49,000 [Robin Taub]
Thank you for warning me.

00:53:50,460 [Kelly Mindell]
[laughs]

00:53:51,860 [John Lanza]
[laughs] Is there any action, uh, that you’d like other people to take that would be helpful for you, Kelly?

00:53:58,380 [Kelly Mindell]
I mean, I think come follow along, and, uh, uh, I’ve built a really fun community there. I feel really lucky to have a community there that surrounds me, and I talk about everything. I talk about fun stuff, like home decor, and I talk about hard stuff, like-

00:54:15,260 [Robin Taub]
Yeah

00:54:15,920 [Kelly Mindell]
… issues surrounding our world, and parenting, and daily life, and all of that. And so, um, come join. It’s fun, and crazy, and a rollercoaster, as is life. [laughs]

00:54:27,550 [John Lanza]
Yeah. As is life.

00:54:29,720 [Robin Taub]
Great.

00:54:29,760 [John Lanza]
Well, Kelly, this has been phenomenal. And Robin, I can’t thank you enough for joining and, uh, joining in this, uh, co-conspiracy to help more parents raise money smart kids.

00:54:42,060 [Robin Taub]
Yes.

00:54:42,680 [John Lanza]
And, uh-

00:54:42,860 [Robin Taub]
My pleasure

00:54:43,460 [John Lanza]
… thank you to you both.

00:54:44,080 [Kelly Mindell]
Thank you for the work that-

00:54:45,440 [Robin Taub]
I’d like to thank you

00:54:45,810 [Kelly Mindell]
… that you’re both doing. It’s so important, and I, I value it so much, ’cause I, it’s one of my biggest goals with my child is to raise him to feel money-smart and money-empowered, because it’s such an important skill for all of life.

00:55:03,980 [Robin Taub]
Well said. [upbeat music]

00:55:10,750 [John Lanza]
I really appreciate you taking your valuable time to listen to this episode. I hope you found it useful. You can find detailed show notes for this and all past episodes at themoneymammals.com. That’s T-H-E-M-O-N-E-Y-M-A-M-M-A-L-S.com. Just click the podcast and blog link at the top of our homepage to discover our entire podcast archive. And if you like my work here, please, please leave a rating, or even better, a review on whichever service that you use to stream these podcast episodes. You are part of our money-smart movement, and this podcast plays an important role in that movement. Your rating and review will help other people like us find this material. And lastly, if you’d like three ideas to help you raise money-smart kids delivered directly to your inbox each week, I think you’ll really love my weekly newsletter. Just click on the little purple circle with the chat icon at themoneymammals.com and select get our newsletter. And until next time, don’t forget to enjoy the journey. [upbeat music]